NFL Emails Scandal (Gruden thread expanded)

[Mahoney]

25 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Way off base yet again.  You continue to conflate multiple parties and issues, draw false equivalencies, and play fast and loose to make some ill conceived and completely superficial point about hypocrisy. 

That's YOUR opinion and most here don't seem to agree with it. I told you what my post was about, believe what you want and take your toxic masculinity and inane ramblings elsewhere. I don't do cray-cray.
 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Mahoney

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, Mahoney said:

That's YOUR opinion and most here don't seem to agree with it. I told you what my post was about, believe what you want and take your testosterone and inane ramblings elsewhere.
 

I know what your post was about.  Thats how I was able to respond in detail.

 

Well if most of you disagree with me then high fives all around. You beat the interloper again by consensus.  

[Mahoney]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I know what your post was about.  Thats how I was able to respond in detail.

 

Well if most of you disagree with me then high fives all around. You beat the interloper again by consensus.  

Were the "interloper" to show a modicum of civility, he wouldn't be an "interloper."

[Jauronimo]

17 minutes ago, Mahoney said:

Were the "interloper" to show a modicum of civility, he wouldn't be an "interloper."

This would carry more weight if you hadn't resulted to insults just one post before.  The gender stuff pre and post editing seems rather tone deaf in a conversation involving sexism.  

[Mahoney]

16 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

This would carry more weight if you hadn't resulted to insults just one post before.  The gender stuff pre and post editing seems rather tone deaf in a conversation involving sexism.  

Happy to take this to chat so your hijacking of this thread can cease.

[Alaska Darin]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Way off base yet again.  You continue to conflate multiple parties and issues, draw false equivalencies, and play fast and loose to make some ill conceived and completely superficial point about hypocrisy. 

 

Gruden isn't an NFL employee.  Gruden is a former Raiders employee who resigned after his ability to lead an NFL franchise was compromised after it was leaked that he got racial with the head of the NFL players association, called the commissioner a fa**ot, and went off about queers in the locker room.  He managed to cover all the bases; players, commissioner, and the league.  How do you think these statements have endeared him to a locker room which is predominately black, has an openly gay player, and 100% belongs to the NFLPA?  Gruden resigned rather than find out.  He was not fired or even punished by the NFL. 

 

Continuing to conflate artistic expression with personal or business correspondence is just asinine.  Do you think Eminem and Dr. Dre's past lyrics have similarly compromised their ability to put on a half time show?  Should stand up comedians be held to the same standard as Jamie Dimon in terms of what they can and cannot say?  Bringing up old rap lyrics is just another lame "whataboutism".  You might have had a sliver of a weak point if the NFL had "fired" Gruden but they didn't.

 

Your question as to why Snyder hasn't been fired demonstrates little to no understanding of how the league actually works.  Snyder is an owner.  Goodell works for Snyder and the other owners and has no means to "fire" an owner.  Goodell can hand out punishments and take some level of action but he needs to think about his next contract negotiation.  Without the support of the rest of the owners he can't compel Snyder to sell his interest in the team, or fire him in laymans terms.  

 

I'll let you try again to explain how the NFL in: (1) booking Dr. Dre for a half time show; (2) allowing Gruden to resign (as if they had a say in the matter); and (3) failing to "fire" an owner for whatever it is you're insinuating Snyder should have been fired for (and we'll just ignore the fact that the NFL is the owners and Goodell can't fire an owner) equals hypocrisy.

An owner can be fired.  Goodell could propose it.  It takes the concurrence of 75% of the remaining owners to be validated.

 

Humanity is filled with hypocrisy and life ain't fair.  

[4merper4mer]

There are a lot of fine lines in this particular topic.  Personally I don’t see major hypocrisy in Gruden walking the plank for what he wrote while the NFL trots out the rappers at halftime.  The court of public opinion, for whatever reason….right or wrong, has given them a pass already and the NFL would be picking a fight if they cut against that grain.

 

I’m not a fan of what seems to be Gruden’s attitude toward other people.  Now that it has been exposed, even if distorted, his job would have been too difficult IMO.

 

To me though, the biggest hypocrisy by far is the selective release/outrage of people saying or doing distasteful things.  I find it curious that one snippet got released, Gruden had to do some spin control, then we got the “but wait, there’s more”.  That seems orchestrated.

 

We are at a weird time in society.  EVERYONE says, does or thinks stupid things.  It used to be that what you did was known to the outside world in a very limited way…..that’s gone.  Now, even what you say is highly exposed and that exposure will only increase moving forward.  Coming relatively soon to a dystopia near you, machines that can read thoughts.  That’ll be a hoot.  None of it can really be stopped.  
 

The question, as it always has been, is how we judge others.  Do we allow only certain types of people and certain types of thoughts to be villainous?  Is everyone the worst person who ever lived?  Who are the arbiters?  IMO the more we each abdicate our own role as arbiters to The NY Times or whoever, the worse off we will all be.

[GG1]

7 hours ago, Mahoney said:

Were the "interloper" to show a modicum of civility, he wouldn't be an "interloper."

 

Seems to be a pattern when he visits

[snafu]

7 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I'll let you try again to explain how the NFL in: (1) booking Dr. Dre for a half time show; (2) allowing Gruden to resign (as if they had a say in the matter); and (3) failing to "fire" an owner for whatever it is you're insinuating Snyder should have been fired for (and we'll just ignore the fact that the NFL is the owners and Goodell can't fire an owner) equals hypocrisy.

While I believe the NFL can put whomever they want in the halftime show, I think there is an element of hypocrisy that you haven’t touched on.

 

Gruden’s private emails were selected and released to the press by the NFL. He wasn’t an employee of the NFL or any NFL team at the time he made those emails.  And the fact that he was the Raiders coach until a couple days ago doesn’t make his communications any less private.  Out of hundreds of thousands, his emails were plucked out and released for a reason.
 

Until someone admits that the NFL had it out particularly for Gruden’s head, that reason was most likely the fact that the NFL was afraid the emails would get out in an uncontrolled manner and they had to get ahead of the narrative. And the only reason it is a story that they had to get out in front of is because the NFL can’t be seen to support a culture that coddles, supports, or condones racists/homophobes/misogynists.  That’s exactly what Gruden’s emails show him to be. By releasing the emails, the NFL knew that Gruden was going to lose his job. But it was only the racist and anti-gay emails that did the trick, right?
 

I think in some way you can tie the two things together and say there’s a strong whiff of hypocrisy. Because putting people in the super bowl halftime show who sing about women in the way that these artists have is actually supporting and condoning their music.  The halftime artists will benefit from their appearance. Would these performers be let on stage if they sang racist lyrics?  What about homophobic lyrics?  Is demeaning women the acceptable side of the line? Is is acceptable when that’s how these guys make their money?  

 

For decades, rap music and all that surrounds it has been sold as a “culture”, and by now that’s true. Not only that, but rap culture has been fit into the mainstream for decades by means just like putting singers in Super Bowl halftime shows.  These performers and what they sing are extremely popular elements of that culture.  In fact, the culture would not exist without the music.  People buy their records with full knowledge of their lyrics. It is a culture that clearly supports and coddles misogyny. Yet we are supposed to think that’s the same as harmless “artistic expression”? It isn’t and you can’t have it both ways. You can’t have zero tolerance in one case (Gruden) and full tolerance in another case (halftime show) and not have it appear to be hypocritical. 

 

 

 

[Nanker]

This is a controversy from which I prefer to remain aloof. However, I will be taking a knee during this SB’s halftime show “entertainment.”

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Nanker
Punctuation

[Joe]

46 minutes ago, GG1 said:

 

Seems to be a pattern when he visits

Someone's gotta be the white knight, I suppose.

 

[GG1]

4 minutes ago, Joe said:

Someone's gotta be the white knight, I suppose.

 

 

Kind of ironic for a guy who appropriated Native American symbolism for his screen name and avatar.

[Ann]

 

 

https://twitter.com/AP_NFL/status/1448250418736341002

[IDBillzFan]

I have a feeling we're going to need a new thread titled "NFL Email Scandal."

 

The story below is actually not a good look for Schefter, but he will inevitably be backed by his peers who will insist journalists often put pre-published material in front of someone in the story to ensure accuracy. But asking if anything should be "added, changed, tweaked" is a bedroom partner move.

 

Frankly, I don't care about sports journalism like regular journalism because the only thing you need to be a sports journalist is the ability to understand basic grammar, and a couple of connections. So this isn't much of a story...except that those feasting on the Gruden story will start devouring everything coming out of the emails because the hysterical reactions precedent has been set.

 

 

 

[Ann]

12 hours ago, Foxx said:

The Buccaneers just canceled Gruden as well. They will be removing his name from the Ring of Fame.

So who had it in for Gruden to leak his emails and only his email? He's been canceled and basically unpersoned by the NFL. The Tampa Bay move is especially egregious (Antonio Brown, anyone?)

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, GG1 said:

 

Seems to be a pattern when he visits

Pattern:

 

1. Call out a weak point

2. The herd rushes to protect one of their own and pile on yours truly

3. Irony abounds (particularly the term white knight in this instance)

 

We have the same people who have blasted the NFL for "going woke" are now blasting the league for retaining a halftime show with artists who have insensitive lyrics.  Raging against cancel culture while condemning rap music.  There's a sizeable contingent here who never pass up an opportunity to celebrate the imminent downfall of America's favorite sport despite spending hours a day on a football forum.    

 

"but, but, but rappers say it!" is in the pantheon of all time terrible takes.  If a point is typically used in arguing that the N-word should be fair game for all, you may want to consider a new tack.  

 

[GG1]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Pattern:

 

1. Call out a weak point

2. The herd rushes to protect one of their own and pile on yours truly

3. Irony abounds (particularly the term white knight in this instance)

 

We have the same people who have blasted the NFL for "going woke" are now blasting the league for retaining a halftime show with artists who have insensitive lyrics.  Raging against cancel culture while condemning rap music.  There's a sizeable contingent here who never pass up an opportunity to celebrate the imminent downfall of America's favorite sport despite spending hours a day on a football forum.    

 

"but, but, but rappers say it!" is in the pantheon of all time terrible takes.  If a point is typically used in arguing that the N-word should be fair game for all, you may want to consider a new tack.  

 

 

I'm not into strawmen arguments, because what you described didn't happen in this instance.

 

Nobody defended Gruden.  But many people pointed out the inconsistent application of morals and standards by the league.  But you knew that.

 

Now, please get back to me when you change your screen name to McJewrmott and use Faigin from Oliver! as your avatar.

[Ann]

10 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Pattern:

 

1. Call out a weak point

2. The herd rushes to protect one of their own and pile on yours truly

3. Irony abounds (particularly the term white knight in this instance)

 

We have the same people who have blasted the NFL for "going woke" are now blasting the league for retaining a halftime show with artists who have insensitive lyrics.  Raging against cancel culture while condemning rap music.  There's a sizeable contingent here who never pass up an opportunity to celebrate the imminent downfall of America's favorite sport despite spending hours a day on a football forum.    

 

"but, but, but rappers say it!" is in the pantheon of all time terrible takes.  If a point is typically used in arguing that the N-word should be fair game for all, you may want to consider a new tack.  

 

I think you are missing everyone's point. Purposely or not. No one is condoning Gruden's emails. However, they were leaked. No one else's emails have been leaked (yet). He's been canceled by the NFL. Not only has he "resigned" from Vegas, he was removed from the ring of honor in Tampa!

His email were misogynistic, yet the NFL has a halftime show full of people who have written and sung vile lyrics about women. How can you square the two? One man gets fired for emails written when not employed by the NFL  while another group is hired by the NFL while currently saying worse. 

Hypocrisy in full display.
 

[IDBillzFan]

7 minutes ago, Ann said:

So who had it in for Gruden to leak his emails and only his email? He's been canceled and basically unpersoned by the NFL. The Tampa Bay move is especially egregious (Antonio Brown, anyone?)

 

The guy who had him on a $100M/10 year deal after watching his $2B stadium sit empty for a year?

 

Probably not, but it seems too easy to say it was Goodell after Gruden called him those names.

[Jabba The Hutt]

3 hours ago, GG1 said:

 

Seems to be a pattern when he visits

He's trollin' for ATOP