Urban Meyer Out

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

Sometimes the dysfunction is on a whole other level, as appears to be the case with Meyer. Keeping him around might have done more harm than any potential drafting benefit. 

 

Plus I don't see an interim coach having that much influence over the last few games.  Maybe they get one more win, which isn't a huge deal in the draft.  It's not like a year ago where they clearly wanted to end up in the top spot to get Lawrence.

[Foxx]

23 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

For the sake of argument let’s be optimistic (from the Jaguars’ perspective), and imagine that there’s some bright young OC or DC out there. Someone who’d make a great head coach. And suppose the Jaguars have the ability to correctly identify who that guy is. How does firing Urban Meyer now, as opposed to the end of the season, play into this scenario?

 

If you’re the Jaguars, you obviously want this guy to say yes to whatever head coaching job you offer him. Does keeping Meyer through the end of the season increase the risk of this guy saying no? I don't believe it does. Keeping Meyer through the end of the season would yield more losses, hence better draft position. Better draft position is one more reason for the new guy to say yes. Everyone knows the Jags are a fixer upper. That better draft choice represents more nails and lumber with which to do the fixing. 

 

Here is an article that includes a timeline of Meyer's dysfunctional tenure with the Jags. 

 

Urban Meyer fired as Jacksonville Jaguars' head coach amid rocky first year

[Arm of Harm]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

 

Here is an article that includes a timeline of Meyer's dysfunctional tenure with the Jags. 

 

Urban Meyer fired as Jacksonville Jaguars' head coach amid rocky first year

 

Good article. Some of my thoughts:

 

The latest embarrassment was a report Wednesday in the Tampa Bay Times in which former kicker Josh Lambo alleged that Meyer kicked him in the leg

 

Maybe he was just showing his kicker how to kick?

 

League sources also confirmed to ESPN on Saturday an NFL Network report that Jaguars receiver Marvin Jones Jr. had to be persuaded to return to the team facility after leaving in response to Meyer's published criticism of the wide receivers.

 

I wonder how Marvin Jones would have responded to Bill Parcells. Parcells once used a press conference to call one of his WRs "she," due to missing too much time to injury.

 

Meyer also had rookie quarterback Trevor Lawrence, the No. 1 overall pick, alternate days with the first-team offense with Gardner Minshew throughout training camp to earn the starting quarterback job.

 

At least that's better than what the Bills did during Josh Allen's rookie year. During Allen's rookie training camp the vast bulk of starter's snaps were given to Nate Peterman.

 

Meyer later revealed that he was dealing with an ongoing issue related to a congenital arachnoid cyst in his brain, which included severe headaches that had gotten worse over two years.

 

He probably should get that removed.

[Foxx]

30 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

I wonder how Marvin Jones would have responded to Bill Parcells. Parcells once used a press conference to call one of his WRs "she," due to missing too much time to injury.

Well, there can be no doubt that as time marches on, our mores and values change incrementally and as such, society changes on the macro level to reflect that.

 

That said, I think there is a good chance Tuna would succeed in today's environment. I think he comes from a place of fortitude that his players instinctively understand and know that he knows not only what he is doing but ultimately has his players best interests at heart. Of course I can't say that with proof of any definitive sort, it is just my observation of watching the man through the years. Meyer on the other hand, can you say jackass?

[Robs House]

I can't recall any HC being so thoroughly ripped to shreds from all sides. This guy must be a real POS. I haven't seen a single person say anything in his defense.

[KD in CA]

7 minutes ago, Robs House said:

I can't recall any HC being so thoroughly ripped to shreds from all sides. This guy must be a real POS. I haven't seen a single person say anything in his defense.

 

Yup.  There's never that much smoke without a fire.  Guys like him are almost untouchable when they are running a perennial top 5 college team, but the fact he apparently thought he could operate the same way in the NFL is both pathetic and hilarious.

[mead107]

Players are wimps.  Suck it up. They get paid way to much money. 
none should get paid more than $5 million a year. 
 

[Core Four]

54 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Players are wimps.  Suck it up. They get paid way to much money. 
none should get paid more than $5 million a year. 
 

 

Reports are that Meyer asked for $12M/year, more than a lot of players make.  Who knew that $12M (if he indeed got that) gets you an instant a-hole.

[Fansince88]

7 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

The way I see it a team with a bad head coach has two options.

 

1) Wait until the end of the season, then fire him. Get a very early draft pick. 
 

2) Fire the head coach before the end of the season. Now you’ve got an interim head coach who wants to make a name for himself with only a handful of games to do so. And players who want to prove they can achieve more than they did while the head coach was in place. 
 

With option 2 you’re likely to win a few more games than you would have with option 1. Thus worsening your draft position. 
 

Several years ago the Bills fired Rex Ryan before the end of the season and put in Anthony Lynn as the interim replacement. Did Lynn begin instilling a winning culture? Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. But with the exception of Hughes, pretty much all the players who were there during Lynn are now gone. To me, draft position is more important than an opportunity for an interim head coach to “winning culture” players who will soon be replaced. Which is why I’d select option 1, and wait until the end of the season to fire a bad head coach. 

 

[Uncle Joe]

2 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Yup.  There's never that much smoke without a fire.  Guys like him are almost untouchable when they are running a perennial top 5 college team, but the fact he apparently thought he could operate the same way in the NFL is both pathetic and hilarious.

Ah, I remember the good old days when Chip Kelly was going o be the answer for all the Bill's problems. I thought to myself, " He's a good recruiter, BUT...". Well a least we got some Shady out of that deal.
Oh, and I'd like to see the result of Chip telling Eddie O to shut up.

[Arm of Harm]

8 hours ago, Foxx said:

Well, there can be no doubt that as time marches on, our mores and values change incrementally and as such, society changes on the macro level to reflect that.

 

That said, I think there is a good chance Tuna would succeed in today's environment. I think he comes from a place of fortitude that his players instinctively understand and know that he knows not only what he is doing but ultimately has his players best interests at heart. Of course I can't say that with proof of any definitive sort, it is just my observation of watching the man through the years. Meyer on the other hand, can you say jackass?

 

To me, Parcells was a better coach than a GM. As a coach I agree he'd succeed in today's environment. Mores and values change, but human nature stays the same. Parcells understood human nature. Well, at least he understood it well enough to be a good football coach.

 

Before a game, he'd take Lawrence Taylor aside and tell him this. He told Taylor that he didn't expect him to get any sacks or make many tackles. All he was hoping for from Taylor was to tie up a couple blockers, thereby freeing other players to make plays. Hearing that stuff got under Taylor's skin, so he made sacks and other big plays just to shut his coach up.

 

The WR that Parcells called "she" was (IIRC) Terry Glenn. The funny thing about that story is that after Parcells left New England for Dallas, Glenn followed him there! I don't think any man would particularly enjoy having his manhood called into question on national media. But Glenn was more productive with Parcells than without him, and maybe that was part of his reason for choosing to sign with Dallas.

 

Parcells believed that insults were motivational, praise was de-motivational. He frequently insulted his own team during practice. "Fall down again! Make it an even dozen for the week!" But in the days leading up to a game he'd publicly praise his opponent. 

 

On the surface Bill Parcells and Urban Meyer might seem similar, in that they both insult their players. Not only that, but they also both insult other members of the coaching staff. After Bill Belichick got fired as Cleveland's head coach, he went back to work for Parcells as defensive coordinator. Parcells frequently chided him about the way things hadn't worked out in Cleveland. Maybe those insults . . . helped Bill Belichick become more motivated? 😮

 

What is it about Bill Parcells' insults to his players which makes them different from Urban Meyer's player-directed insults? For that matter, what makes Parcells' insults towards his own coaching staff different from Meyer's insults towards his coaching staff? I think that you hit on at least part of the answer, in pointing out that Parcells ultimately had his players' best interests at heart, Meyer didn't, and people picked up on that. But is that the sole difference between the two men's insults, or is there more to the story than that?

[Foxx]

4 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

What is it about Bill Parcells' insults to his players which makes them different from Urban Meyer's player-directed insults? For that matter, what makes Parcells' insults towards his own coaching staff different from Meyer's insults towards his coaching staff? I think that you hit on at least part of the answer, in pointing out that Parcells ultimately had his players' best interests at heart, Meyer didn't, and people picked up on that. But is that the sole difference between the two men's insults, or is there more to the story than that?

Can't say for sure. I will say though that you just know things intuitively when you see/hear/feel them. Or at least, most intelligent beings do anyways. 

 

I'll just choke myself in the shallow waters here. To delve into it more would be going off the deep end and into metaphysical aspects.

[KD in CA]

15 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

What is it about Bill Parcells' insults to his players which makes them different from Urban Meyer's player-directed insults? For that matter, what makes Parcells' insults towards his own coaching staff different from Meyer's insults towards his coaching staff? I think that you hit on at least part of the answer, in pointing out that Parcells ultimately had his players' best interests at heart, Meyer didn't, and people picked up on that. But is that the sole difference between the two men's insults, or is there more to the story than that?

 

I agree with this.  Parcells is like Belichick, everything they do - naughty or nice - has a purpose;  it is designed to increase his chances of winning.  As for Meyer, it's pretty clear that he's just a self-centered @$$h@l& who believes his own hype.

[Ann]

 

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1472216236432015364

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1472217111451811845

[Nanker]

He should forfeit the remaining contracted salary. But then again, Wrecks should have too. 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 hour ago, Ann said:

 

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1472216236432015364

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1472217111451811845

 

Kicked a player, threatened everyone with termination, was generally an abusive @$$h@l& no one wanted to work with: still has a claim on future contracted salary.

 

But if they find a 12 year old email with a racial statement in it, he'll get nothing.

 

Makes perfect sense.

[RochesterRob]

On 12/17/2021 at 4:05 AM, Arm of Harm said:

 

To me, Parcells was a better coach than a GM. As a coach I agree he'd succeed in today's environment. Mores and values change, but human nature stays the same. Parcells understood human nature. Well, at least he understood it well enough to be a good football coach.

 

Before a game, he'd take Lawrence Taylor aside and tell him this. He told Taylor that he didn't expect him to get any sacks or make many tackles. All he was hoping for from Taylor was to tie up a couple blockers, thereby freeing other players to make plays. Hearing that stuff got under Taylor's skin, so he made sacks and other big plays just to shut his coach up.

 

The WR that Parcells called "she" was (IIRC) Terry Glenn. The funny thing about that story is that after Parcells left New England for Dallas, Glenn followed him there! I don't think any man would particularly enjoy having his manhood called into question on national media. But Glenn was more productive with Parcells than without him, and maybe that was part of his reason for choosing to sign with Dallas.

 

Parcells believed that insults were motivational, praise was de-motivational. He frequently insulted his own team during practice. "Fall down again! Make it an even dozen for the week!" But in the days leading up to a game he'd publicly praise his opponent. 

 

On the surface Bill Parcells and Urban Meyer might seem similar, in that they both insult their players. Not only that, but they also both insult other members of the coaching staff. After Bill Belichick got fired as Cleveland's head coach, he went back to work for Parcells as defensive coordinator. Parcells frequently chided him about the way things hadn't worked out in Cleveland. Maybe those insults . . . helped Bill Belichick become more motivated? 😮

 

What is it about Bill Parcells' insults to his players which makes them different from Urban Meyer's player-directed insults? For that matter, what makes Parcells' insults towards his own coaching staff different from Meyer's insults towards his coaching staff? I think that you hit on at least part of the answer, in pointing out that Parcells ultimately had his players' best interests at heart, Meyer didn't, and people picked up on that. But is that the sole difference between the two men's insults, or is there more to the story than that?

  You don't get forever to produce results even if you are a chit head.  I was in college just prior to the Giants SB against the Broncos.  I knew people from NYC who were Giants fans and Parcells was to the point where he was going to be pushed out the door with the Giants.  He could have just as easily been an obscure coach today that most never heard of but the 86 Giants caught fire and the rest is history.  It's easy to be a disruption in the locker room if you know the coach has no long term power.  Win a SB within your first contract (just a few years in those days) and even difficult players will yield because all of the sudden the HC has the ultimate power in the organization.   Look at our own Hank Bullough who was not even the Bills' HC two years when he had a rebellion by the players mid way through the 1986 season.  Bruce Smith reportedly told his defensive teammates just prior to the Bills game with the Bucs that he would kick anybody's rear who made a tackle in that game.  The Bills suffered a bad loss, Hank was out, and Marv Levy was in.  Hank method's were better suited for the college ranks which is where he wound up in.

Edited December 18, 2021 by RochesterRob

[TakeYouToTasker 2.0]

I can’t believe I just read someone favorably comparing Urban Meyer to Bill Parcells.

[Core Four]

6 hours ago, Nanker said:

He should forfeit the remaining contracted salary. But then again, Wrecks should have too. 

 

Wrecks was just incompetent, he wasn't fired with cause.  Meyer has a list of items that the Jaguars to use if Meyer sues for breach of contract.  Finally saw an article listing Meyer's contract potential value, which is estimated to be between $10M - $12M annually, which makes him one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/urban-meyer-contract-jaguars-firing-salary-guarantees/1w68ymlbowq581mlqkx7zwfhzp

[Ann]

Former Jaguars head coach Urban Meyer discusses his firing, apologizes to Jacksonville
 

</snip>
 

In an exclusive interview with NFL.com, Meyer spoke publicly for the first time since his firing and expressed his disappointment in how his Jacksonville tenure unfolded.
 

"I just apologize to Jacksonville," Meyer said over the phone on Friday from Florida. "I love Jacksonville. It's one of the reasons I took the job. I still think Shad's a great owner. It's heart-breaking. I just had a dream of it becoming a destination place with a new facility he agreed to build and some day to walk into that stadium where it's standing room only. Because I know how bad the people of Jacksonville want it. So, I'm just heartbroken that we weren't able to do that. I still believe it's going to be done. It's too good of a place."
 

In the 23-minute-long interview, Meyer said he was "devastated," denied all accusations made against him in his final days, explained why he benched star running back James Robinson against the Rams and detailed where it got away on the field.
 

</snip>