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Cognitive Dissonance


RochesterRob
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  The simplest definition is trying to reconcile two contradictory ideas or thoughts.  How pervasive is it in today's society?  To me it seems like a growing phenomena for people trying to function in society that lack a high degree of intelligence.  As people have increasing difficulty dealing with society they voluntarily employ it in part to create safe spaces and in part to knock down social competition.  A society that functions best employs truth to the widest degree.  Truth seems to be a vanishing concept on many levels in society.  Events of the last few days have made me more sensitive to it in dealing with others.  So, what do you think?

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1 hour ago, Ann said:

Look to the public education system of the last 50 years. I do think you will find a lot of your answers by digging there.

 

  That is a part of it but it does not explain the 70 and older crowd.  I think unbridled ego is definitely a factor.  Jealousy is another and in particular my individual experience.  I don't understand why anybody would be jealous of me if they knew all that there was to know about me.  I thought about if I had won the lottery or inherited a lot of money while much younger how much those around me would be bugging their eyes out over my good fortune.  It made me kind of sad for the people I have to be around that I have to look like I am struggling so people would not try to sabotage me economically.  Getting back to CD people go as far as an Archie Bunker mentality where if anybody is the slightest bit different they need to be run out pronto.  I don't have it anywhere as bad as somebody of color but the situation is so extreme.  They still think in terms of the Irish as Micks, Germans as Krauts, French as Frogs, and they sincerely mean it.  And it is these people who feed those ideas to the next generation and the next generation does the same with the one following it.  There is no way that they will allow most other people to be seen with virtuish ideals.  Irish surname means lazy and drunk to them end of sentence.  And so on.   

Edited by RochesterRob
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On 12/18/2021 at 7:28 PM, RochesterRob said:

  That is a part of it but it does not explain the 70 and older crowd.  I think unbridled ego is definitely a factor.  Jealousy is another and in particular my individual experience.  I don't understand why anybody would be jealous of me if they knew all that there was to know about me.  I thought about if I had won the lottery or inherited a lot of money while much younger how much those around me would be bugging their eyes out over my good fortune.  It made me kind of sad for the people I have to be around that I have to look like I am struggling so people would not try to sabotage me economically.  Getting back to CD people go as far as an Archie Bunker mentality where if anybody is the slightest bit different they need to be run out pronto.  I don't have it anywhere as bad as somebody of color but the situation is so extreme.  They still think in terms of the Irish as Micks, Germans as Krauts, French as Frogs, and they sincerely mean it.  And it is these people who feed those ideas to the next generation and the next generation does the same with the one following it.  There is no way that they will allow most other people to be seen with virtuish ideals.  Irish surname means lazy and drunk to them end of sentence.  And so on.   

It kinda does explain the over 60-70 crowd... Education that is. Primary education changed radically in the late 1960s. I am 53. My grammar school education is closer to my kid's who are 30 & 34 years younger than me than my siblings who are 4 & 5 years older than me.  Just saying...

 

Also... As resources diminish,  competition increases.  We have always been a competitive society... Yet we're more and more zero-sum now, less collaborative. Mix in the results of years of merit based society... We have a mess on our hands.

 

FWIW...

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Something happens between kindergarten and twelfth grade that lays the framework for secondary education to build upon. 
 

There once was a balance between indoctrination and raising. It was the parent. As society slowly killed the parental involvement in the raising of children by forcing two to work, entertainment and technology could fill the gaps. 
 

Once any outside influence was lost; state run institutions could mold the mind of the child with little resistance. 
 

Color me crazy; don’t care. The destruction of the mind, soul and hearts of people is purposeful. Technology put it on the fast track and yes; we have a big problems on our hands.

 

”People been saying that for years”.
 

No shit. It took years to get here. We were warned.
 

We’ve lost the ability to control what’s considered normal or rational. “Normal” will now be dictated to your children who will then make future policies to dictate it unto you as you age. 

Edited by The Guy In Pants
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4 hours ago, The Guy In Pants said:

Something happens between kindergarten and twelfth grade that lays the framework for secondary education to build upon. 
 

There once was a balance between indoctrination and raising. It was the parent. As society slowly killed the parental involvement in the raising of children by forcing two to work, entertainment and technology could fill the gaps. 
 

Once any outside influence was lost; state run institutions could mold the mind of the child with little resistance. 
 

Color me crazy; don’t care. The destruction of the mind, soul and hearts of people is purposeful. Technology put it on the fast track and yes; we have a big problems on our hands.

 

”People been saying that for years”.
 

No shit. It took years to get here. We were warned.
 

We’ve lost the ability to control what’s considered normal or rational. “Normal” will now be dictated to your children who will then make future policies to dictate it unto you as you age. 

This topic and your post in particular, raises an existential philosophical tangent that I have been contemplating for a couple years now. I don't know that it would fit this thread and I don't want to hijack it so when I get the time and can gather up those various random thoughts, I may give rise to them in another dedicated topic. 

 

Good thread @RochesterRob. I shall try contribute to it by staying on topic.

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I think the major change is due to heightened understanding of human psychology and how it can be manipulated, along with advancements in, and consolidation of power over, the technology that allows for the dissemination of information.

 

We think we're rational beings but we are far more influenced by conditioning and association than logic and reason. That's why advertising is the way it is.

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On 12/20/2021 at 7:40 PM, Foxx said:

This topic and your post in particular, raises an existential philosophical tangent that I have been contemplating for a couple years now. I don't know that it would fit this thread and I don't want to hijack it so when I get the time and can gather up those various random thoughts, I may give rise to them in another dedicated topic. 

 

Good thread @RochesterRob. I shall try contribute to it by staying on topic.

+1 Same...

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I try to insulate myself against the current social forces that I see as destructive, e.g., social media.  I realize that by doing so I throw out the baby with the bath water with regard to many good things.  I'm willing to pay that price because at my advanced age I don't feel I need such a broad spectrum within which to operate.

 

Long story short:  I haven't given up on everything, just a lot of things that have no value for me.

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  I appreciate the contributions made thus far.  I'll give a general example to hopefully fine tune the concept I am trying to get across.  I live more or less a way outside of the nearest village.  Hunting goes on in the fall.  It is nothing for people to accuse one another of trespass or encouraging someone else to trespass.  The accusation is unfounded where I am concerned but people will be extremely growly about it with me nonetheless.  One individual in particular chose to take this to the next level in that I am guilty of the sins of all my blood and related by marriage family.  Example being that some distant cousin I never met in my life hit a neighboring mailbox and somebody not even involved in the matter but lives nearby chooses to storm up to my place to complain (putting it mildly) as to what I was going to do about it.  Implying I was at fault as to the damage to the mailbox.  I don't know how you reconcile what is fact in that a cousin I never met hit a mailbox with I need to be held responsible for the damage.  Sorry if I don't have the full academic background to analyze in terms of CD but I tried.  Anyways, that is not even the worst in terms of people finding fault with me when they should be looking elsewhere.  I'd love to blame it all on modern education but modern education is not in play here.  It's more about exercising ego when people do not get push back at home to make them good citizens in broader society.  

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1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I appreciate the contributions made thus far.  I'll give a general example to hopefully fine tune the concept I am trying to get across.  I live more or less a way outside of the nearest village.  Hunting goes on in the fall.  It is nothing for people to accuse one another of trespass or encouraging someone else to trespass.  The accusation is unfounded where I am concerned but people will be extremely growly about it with me nonetheless.  One individual in particular chose to take this to the next level in that I am guilty of the sins of all my blood and related by marriage family.  Example being that some distant cousin I never met in my life hit a neighboring mailbox and somebody not even involved in the matter but lives nearby chooses to storm up to my place to complain (putting it mildly) as to what I was going to do about it.  Implying I was at fault as to the damage to the mailbox.  I don't know how you reconcile what is fact in that a cousin I never met hit a mailbox with I need to be held responsible for the damage.  Sorry if I don't have the full academic background to analyze in terms of CD but I tried.  Anyways, that is not even the worst in terms of people finding fault with me when they should be looking elsewhere.  I'd love to blame it all on modern education but modern education is not in play here.  It's more about exercising ego when people do not get push back at home to make them good citizens in broader society.  

What do you mean by "hit a mailbox?"  Physically hit a mailbox or discharged their weapon (you mentioned they were hunting) and stray round/shot (is rifle hunting legal there?) hit a mailbox? I guess it makes a big difference, shooting a mailbox or backing into it with a truck.  You do hear the strangest stories during hunting season... Like, better carry your blaze orange toilet paper. 😉 

 

Am I wrong?  Kinda a big thing if I am going out to get my mail and a hunter sees movement and fires.

 

??? If anybody is hunting on your land, aren't you responsible? Are there purple paint laws in NYS to warn trespassers.  Sorry if I am straying here.

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3 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  I appreciate the contributions made thus far.  I'll give a general example to hopefully fine tune the concept I am trying to get across.  I live more or less a way outside of the nearest village.  Hunting goes on in the fall.  It is nothing for people to accuse one another of trespass or encouraging someone else to trespass.  The accusation is unfounded where I am concerned but people will be extremely growly about it with me nonetheless.  One individual in particular chose to take this to the next level in that I am guilty of the sins of all my blood and related by marriage family.  Example being that some distant cousin I never met in my life hit a neighboring mailbox and somebody not even involved in the matter but lives nearby chooses to storm up to my place to complain (putting it mildly) as to what I was going to do about it.  Implying I was at fault as to the damage to the mailbox.  I don't know how you reconcile what is fact in that a cousin I never met hit a mailbox with I need to be held responsible for the damage.  Sorry if I don't have the full academic background to analyze in terms of CD but I tried.  Anyways, that is not even the worst in terms of people finding fault with me when they should be looking elsewhere.  I'd love to blame it all on modern education but modern education is not in play here.  It's more about exercising ego when people do not get push back at home to make them good citizens in broader society.  

 

People be crazy. He hit a mailbox and somehow you're responsible? :classic_blink:

As far as trespassing goes, wear something to define you on the back of your camo so people will know it wasn't you, couldn't be you on their cameras, and you aren't the one trespassing. 

I will say that we has a TON of issues with trespassing on the hunting land. Not hunters (after the first year) because the land was posted, but ATVers and snowmobilers.  They'd even comment about the hunters in the stands as they zipped on through. No trespassing signs everywhere.  

 

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What do you mean by "hit a mailbox?"  Physically hit a mailbox or discharged their weapon (you mentioned they were hunting) and stray round/shot (is rifle hunting legal there?) hit a mailbox? I guess it makes a big difference, shooting a mailbox or backing into it with a truck.  You do hear the strangest stories during hunting season... Like, better carry your blaze orange toilet paper. 😉 

 

Am I wrong?  Kinda a big thing if I am going out to get my mail and a hunter sees movement and fires.

 

??? If anybody is hunting on your land, aren't you responsible? Are there purple paint laws in NYS to warn trespassers.  Sorry if I am straying here.


We had a special policy that all the hunters "invited" to hunt on the hunting land were on. It actually caused an issue when we sold the land. The buyer's attorney was a total idiot, the buyer was frustrated with her and apologized to my husband after the close. Even with that, I would say not to rely on homeowner's insurance, get a special policy. 
 

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1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What do you mean by "hit a mailbox?"  Physically hit a mailbox or discharged their weapon (you mentioned they were hunting) and stray round/shot (is rifle hunting legal there?) hit a mailbox? I guess it makes a big difference, shooting a mailbox or backing into it with a truck.  You do hear the strangest stories during hunting season... Like, better carry your blaze orange toilet paper. 😉 

 

Am I wrong?  Kinda a big thing if I am going out to get my mail and a hunter sees movement and fires.

 

??? If anybody is hunting on your land, aren't you responsible? Are there purple paint laws in NYS to warn trespassers.  Sorry if I am straying here.

  Hit a mailbox as in hitting it with their vehicle most likely unintentionally but hit nonetheless.  No issue of hunting in terms of that episode.  Like I said I've never met this relative (no bullcrap) and most likely they were too far away from the median.  Not everybody gets along with everybody else in my family if that makes any sense so there is family I have never met even though they live within 10 miles of me.  

 

  In terms of hunting trespass they are not ones that have permission to hunt on my land so they are obviously trespassing on me as well if there is any degree of truth to the allegation if they are over at the neighbor.  Not all the woods is visible from the road and all I can do is chase them off if I do find them there.  You have to have free standing posted signs which I have to let people know they are not supposed to be there.  Posted signs on trees and telephone poles do not count even though the trouble making neighbor does that.  

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2 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Hit a mailbox as in hitting it with their vehicle most likely unintentionally but hit nonetheless.  No issue of hunting in terms of that episode.  Like I said I've never met this relative (no bullcrap) and most likely they were too far away from the median.  Not everybody gets along with everybody else in my family if that makes any sense so there is family I have never met even though they live within 10 miles of me.  

 

  In terms of hunting trespass they are not ones that have permission to hunt on my land so they are obviously trespassing on me as well if there is any degree of truth to the allegation if they are over at the neighbor.  Not all the woods is visible from the road and all I can do is chase them off if I do find them there.  You have to have free standing posted signs which I have to let people know they are not supposed to be there.  Posted signs on trees and telephone poles do not count even though the trouble making neighbor does that.  

Okay!  That's better... I agree with you.  Wasn't sure.  Big difference if bullets flying around! 😏 

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8 hours ago, mead107 said:

So, how many mailboxes has everyone hit? 
 

Our ex-next door neighbor, years ago when her two boys were young, clipped a mailbox with the mirror of the family cruiser.  Seems her two boys were acting up, fighting in back seat... She went to swing at them (hey, where do you think they learned it from?) and swerved and clipped a person's mailbox with her passenger side mirror... 

 

...Anyway, to make a long story short, she was honest and went up to the house to admit what she had done.  She asked how much and the guy said, $300... 😆🤣... My neighbor's husband was fit to be tied... He was pissed, mumbling something like that was a $30 mailbox.  😆 

 

See folks, honesty and fighting with your brother doesn't pay!

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13 hours ago, mead107 said:

So, how many mailboxes has everyone hit? 
 

 

One.  With my face.

 

Face was fine.  Aluminum mailbox was annihilated.  

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