USS Sullivans is Sinking!

[Ann]

If you have ever gone to the Naval & Military Park downtown, you have gone on the USS Sullivans.  They have regular tours as well as ghost tours. Apparently, it has been taking on water for a while and now it is sinking!

Taking on water.

 

 

 

 

[Ann]

...
 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

Historical note: The Sullivans was named after the Sullivan brothers, who served together on the USS Juneau in 1942.  They demanded to serve together, despite Navy regulations against it, and the Navy eventually relented and waived the regs in their case, on the logic that "A ship the size of the Juneau will never suffer a catastrophic loss that kills the whole family."

 

The Juneau was torpedoed at the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (Nov 13, 1942), killing one of the brothers.  After the battle, on the way to Noumea, she was torpedoed again by a Japanese submarine, and blew right the hell up, killing all but 10 of the crew, including the remaining brothers.  So the Navy named a Fletcher-class destroyer after them, which is what's currently sinking.

 

There is also an active USS The Sullivans: DDG-68, an early Arleigh Burke class destroyer.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Crap Throwing Monkey

[RochesterRob]

  This is actually a very large problem with older historic naval vessels.  Even back when these ships were in service they were constantly in drydock to address such problems.  The USS Texas (New York Class battleship) has had this problem for decades now and the people who were willing to provide financial support are dying off.  The Texas is the last surviving battleship of an era that includes the Oklahoma and Arizona.  The Arizona has issues that have fuel oil leaking into Pearl Harbor with the fuel storage tanks getting weaker by the month.  It is estimated that the Arizona has nearly half of its original fuel load left (500K gallons currently, 1M gallons total storage capacity) after its infamous death blow during the attack made by Japan on Dec 7, 1941.  These ships need help and are a good physical reminder as to how devastating war can be.  Especially, when I hear younger people talking about a nuclear response to Russia over Ukraine.

Edited April 14, 2022 by RochesterRob

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  This is actually a very large problem with older historic naval vessels.  Even back when these ships were in service they were constantly in drydock to address such problems.  The USS Texas (New York Class battleship) has had this problem for decades now and the people who were willing to provide financial support are dying off.  The Texas is the last surviving battleship of an era that includes the Oklahoma and Arizona.  The Arizona has issues that have fuel oil leaking into Pearl Harbor with the fuel storage tanks getting weaker by the month.  It is estimated that the Arizona has nearly half of its original fuel load left (500K gallons currently, 1M gallons total storage capacity) after its infamous death blow during the attack made by Japan on Dec 7, 1941.  These ships need help and are a good physical reminder as to how devastating war can be.  Especially, when I hear younger people talking about a nuclear response to Russia over Ukraine.

probably could have addressed some of these issues with some of the $2 bil of cash on pallets dropped off in Iran

[RochesterRob]

10 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

probably could have addressed some of these issues with some of the $2 bil of cash on pallets dropped off in Iran

  Yeah, if those who made the decision to drop the pallets had consulted me instead.  As to the Arizona I think half a million gallons of fuel oil will have to be dealt with at some point in time.  Hopefully, naval engineers will figure out a way to extract the fuel with minimal impact to the rest of the ship.  

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  Yeah, if those who made the decision to drop the pallets had consulted me instead.  As to the Arizona I think half a million gallons of fuel oil will have to be dealt with at some point in time.  Hopefully, naval engineers will figure out a way to extract the fuel with minimal impact to the rest of the ship.  

 

Not just the Arizona.  It's a problem at a few places world-wide.  The wreck of the Utah, on the other side of Ford Island from Arizona, leaks as much oil.  Royal Oak in Scapa Flow has the same issue, I believe.  So does the entirety of the Truk Lagoon in the Pacific, a Japanese base where quite a few ships were sunk.  Prince of Wales and Repulse in the South China Sea may have had that issue as well...but the bigger issue with those is that they're being taken apart in place by pirates.  The pre-war steel is insanely valuable, since it's not contaminated with radiation from nuclear tests, and the wrecks are just shallow enough for salvage.

 

Never thought of it before, but The Sullivans low-background steel would be just as valuable.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Crap Throwing Monkey

[Ann]

…

 

 

 

[Fansince88]

Last year the bride and I boarded the USS North Carolina to tour. They have it in a metal enclosure.  Although it is considered a "floating museum" it is supported and the water is drained from around it anually for repair and paint. We went on The Sullivan about 10 years ago I believe. Im suprised that was not set up the same way. Sad! 

[ExiledInIllinois]

FWIW... The cruiser USS Little Rock is in the mud.  The destroyer Sullivan's can't be that far off drafting like 18 feet.  Project depth, FWIW, channel depth @ BFLo River/ShipCanal is maintained (dredged) to 18' (feet) deep. Can be found here:

 

https://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/Library/Maps-and-Charts/

 

Were those boats are is in about <18' feet of water. So... the destroyer has to be in the mud on bottom.  Unless it topples over, I guess it can't go deeper.  Definitely not totally floating. 

 

Here's the chart,  zoomed in, if you don't wanna load the .pdf.  Red numbers are the soundings outside (below) the federally maintained project depth specs of 18'. 

 

Go to link above for clearer charts.  These soundings were taken in May of 2021.  My first USACE job was in hydrographic survey taking these soundings many moons ago!

 

I will comb the articles... To see if it states the Sullivans is in the mud on bottom... BUT we know she totally is!

 

Hooed this helps!

 

 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

2 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

Last year the bride and I boarded the USS North Carolina to tour. They have it in a metal enclosure.  Although it is considered a "floating museum" it is supported and the water is drained from around it anually for repair and paint. We went on The Sullivan about 10 years ago I believe. Im suprised that was not set up the same way. Sad! 

 

North Carolina probably gets a lot more funding.  The Buffalo Naval Park is a pretty small operation.

 

I have teak from the deck of the North Carolina, from when they refurbished her about 10 years ago.  Waiting until I'm confident enough in my skills to make this with it.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

FWIW... The cruiser USS Little Rock is in the mud.  The destroyer Sullivan's can't be that far off drafting like 18 feet.  Project depth, FWIW, channel depth @ BFLo River/ShipCanal is maintained (dredged) to 18' (feet) deep. Can be found here:

 

https://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/Library/Maps-and-Charts/

 

Were those boats are is in about <18' feet of water. So... the destroyer has to be in the mud on bottom.  Unless it topples over, I guess it can't go deeper.  Definitely not totally floating. 

 

Here's the chart,  zoomed in, if you don't wanna load the .pdf.  Red numbers are the soundings outside (below) the federally maintained project depth specs of 18'. 

 

Go to link above for clearer charts.  These soundings were taken in May of 2021.  My first USACE job was in hydrographic survey taking these soundings many moons ago!

 

I will comb the articles... To see if it states the Sullivans is in the mud on bottom... BUT we know she totally is!

 

Hooed this helps!

 

 

 

 

Hopefully the asian carp will right her.

[ExiledInIllinois]

8 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

Last year the bride and I boarded the USS North Carolina to tour. They have it in a metal enclosure.  Although it is considered a "floating museum" it is supported and the water is drained from around it anually for repair and paint. We went on The Sullivan about 10 years ago I believe. Im suprised that was not set up the same way. Sad! 

In the early 1980s when they first brought the Little Rock and Sullivans to BFLo... They used to allow overnights onboard the Little Rock.  In Boy Scouts we had weekend campout on it.  They probably still do the camping thing onboard...  Anyway.  We were on every inch of the boats.  This was before they'd rope things off.  We opened every hatch and went through every bulkhead on the Sullivans... 😆... I should say, they were mad at hell with us! 

Edited April 14, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

14 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

North Carolina probably gets a lot more funding.  The Buffalo Naval Park is a pretty small operation.

 

I have teak from the deck of the North Carolina, from when they refurbished her about 10 years ago.  Waiting until I'm confident enough in my skills to make this with it.

Yup!

 

Totally agree. BFLo small potatoes.  Little Rock is totally in mud.  Not even sure they can move it!

Edited April 14, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yup!

 

Totally agree. BFLo small potatoes.  Little Rock us totally in mud.  Not even sure they can move it!

 

Little Rock's original draft was more than 20 feet even at light displacement, and her CLG refit could only have made her heavier, not lighter.  How'd they get her in there to begin with?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

@Crap Throwing Monkey When son was little back about 15 years ago... We had campout one the Gato-class submarine USS Silversides in Muskegon, Michigan.  Similar to the Croaker in BFLo.  AMAZED how small it was.  90 crew members and galley the size of a small 12×12 kitchen.  Cook was feeding round the clock. He's the only one who got a daily shower.  Officers once a week.  Crew every two weeks... And they were hot-bunking.  First underwater surgery was done in that galley... While the Silversides was in Japanese water.   Appendectomy.  They'd literally give them all the food they wanted.  Loaded boxes everywhere,  crew would eat their way to more room!  One way to get sailors to sign up as submariners... Of course the small framed guys.  My azz was hanging off the bunk.  Went and slept outside on the lawn halfway through the night! 😆 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

13 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

Last year the bride and I boarded the USS North Carolina to tour. They have it in a metal enclosure.  Although it is considered a "floating museum" it is supported and the water is drained from around it anually for repair and paint. We went on The Sullivan about 10 years ago I believe. Im suprised that was not set up the same way. Sad! 

 

Also helps that, with the North Carolina, the Navy gave a shit: they told the powers-that-be in 2009 that the North Carolina had to be repaired or scrapped, since she hadn't seen a dry dock in 50 years.

 

The cofferdam you saw is pretty recent.  They're still in the process of fixing the Showboat.

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

Little Rock's original draft was more than 20 feet even at light displacement, and her CLG refit could only have made her heavier, not lighter.  How'd they get her in there to begin with?

Not sure.  But if you check those charts I linked... Project Depth is now 18'.  I swore it was 25' when I was in Survey back in early 1990s.  Here it's 29' on Calumet River.

 

So... I am assuming, project depth through years decreased with the lack of boat traffic @ BFLo Harbor/ River /Ship Canal...

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

@Crap Throwing Monkey When son was little back about 15 years ago... We had campout one the Gato-class submarine USS Silversides in Muskegon, Michigan.  Similar to the Croaker in BFLo.  AMAZED how small it was.  90 crew members and galley the size of a small 12×12 kitchen.  Cook was feeding round the clock. He's the only one who got a daily shower.  Officers once a week.  Crew every two weeks... And they were hot-bunking.  First underwater surgery was done in that galley... While the Silversides was in Japanese water.   Appendectomy.  They'd literally give them all the food they wanted.  Loaded boxes everywhere,  crew would eat their way to more room!  One way to get sailors to sign up as submariners... Of course the small framed guys.  My azz was hanging off the bunk.  Went and slept outside on the lawn halfway through the night! 😆 

 

I've been on the Croaker at the Buffalo Naval Park.  Tight fit is an understatement.  At 6'4", I couldn't get through the hatchways without turning backwards - I couldn't simultaneously crouch down, lift my legs high enough, and walk forward.  And Croaker went through a modernization, Silversides didn't.  I can only imagine what that interior was like.

 

My wife knocked herself out on Croaker.  Turned her head in response to a noise, smacked it on the overhead piping.  Ended up spending the night in Gates to make sure she wasn't going to go all Natasha Richardson on us.

[ExiledInIllinois]

15 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

Hopefully the asian carp will right her.

There's only grass carp in Lake Erie.

 

😉