BILLS' History

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

2 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

 

 

9/24/90: Thurman rushes for 214 against the Jets.

 

 

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

9/24/90: Thurman rushes for 214 against the Jets.

 

 

 

Was that the MNF game the Jest fans were lighting fires in the stands or was it the one closer to Halloween?

[Arm of Harm]

On 5/12/2022 at 3:29 PM, Alaska Darin said:

Russell Copeland, who always ran like his feet weighed 50 pounds each.

 

 

Yeah, I remember when guys like Russell Copeland were labeled “the future.” That particular future didn’t pan out so well. But even though Copeland didn’t amount to much as an NFL player, it’s nice to see that he got a few good plays in along the way. 

[Alaska Darin]

13 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

Yeah, I remember when guys like Russell Copeland were labeled “the future.” That particular future didn’t pan out so well. But even though Copeland didn’t amount to much as an NFL player, it’s nice to see that he got a few good plays in along the way. 

He had decent year (I think his 3rd) when Reed got hurt.  Caught over 40 passes for 600+ yards but then the injuries started and he ended up retiring.  He just looked odd running.  One of the least twitchy WRs I can remember.

[snafu]

I was looking up Robb Riddick's birthday (April 26) and I ran across this from the Democrat & Chronicle on Draft Day in 1990.  A list of the Bills' best draft picks by round...

 

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

11 minutes ago, snafu said:

I was looking up Robb Riddick's birthday (April 26) and I ran across this from the Democrat & Chronicle on Draft Day in 1990.  A list of the Bills' best draft picks by round...

 

 

 

That one year he ran for maybe 400 yards but TWELVE Touchdowns.  Insane.

[snafu]

3 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

That one year he ran for maybe 400 yards but TWELVE Touchdowns.  Insane.

 

Short yardage specialist.  I think I remember him jumping over the pile and scoring a TD with a cast on his arm from a broken wrist.  He wasn't great, but I liked him.

 

[Alaska Darin]

1 minute ago, snafu said:

 

Short yardage specialist.  I think I remember him jumping over the pile and scoring a TD with a cast on his arm from a broken wrist.  He wasn't great, but I liked him.

I did too.  He was a tough guy.  I liked Larry Kinnebrew too. 

[Arm of Harm]

54 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

He had decent year (I think his 3rd) when Reed got hurt.  Caught over 40 passes for 600+ yards but then the injuries started and he ended up retiring.  He just looked odd running.  One of the least twitchy WRs I can remember.

 

Russell Copeland was a 4th round pick by John Butler. Butler was in charge of the draft for nine years (he was the one who’d selected Fina). It is not an inditement of a GM when a 4th round pick doesn’t work out. But in that time Butler only drafted three players who played at a high level for a significant number of years. Those three players were Eric Moulds, Antoine Winfield, and Ruben Brown. Winfield spent most of his career with the Vikings, after going first-contract-and-out with the Bills. 
 

The Bills have had worse GMs than Butler. Doug Whaley, for example, was GM for three years without having drafted anyone remotely as good as the three players I’d mentioned. However, Butler’s draft day successes were too infrequent for the Bills to maintain a Super Bowl caliber roster. 

[IDBillzFan]

8 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

The Bills have had worse GMs than Butler.

 

Little side story; I  attended Butler's Memorial Service in 2003.

 

I had an appointment with a customer in San Diego, and saw an article on the sports page about it happening that day, and thought, "WTF...I'll go there and see if I could get in."

 

Sure enough I was able to walk right in and sit in one of the back pews. It was really weird because I was at a somber memorial service but was hyped up because there were so many Bills there. They brought up Marcellus Wiley, Marv Levy and Chris Berman to give little remembrance speeches, and AJ Smith did closing comments.

 

Everyone was sad and I'm like "I'm sitting six rows from Marv Freaking Levy! What a day!"

[Alaska Darin]

20 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

 

Russell Copeland was a 4th round pick by John Butler. Butler was in charge of the draft for nine years (he was the one who’d selected Fina). It is not an inditement of a GM when a 4th round pick doesn’t work out. But in that time Butler only drafted three players who played at a high level for a significant number of years. Those three players were Eric Moulds, Antoine Winfield, and Ruben Brown. Winfield spent most of his career with the Vikings, after going first-contract-and-out with the Bills. 
 

The Bills have had worse GMs than Butler. Doug Whaley, for example, was GM for three years without having drafted anyone remotely as good as the three players I’d mentioned. However, Butler’s draft day successes were too infrequent for the Bills to maintain a Super Bowl caliber roster. 

You're revising history quite a bit there.   Butler was an excellent talent evaluator who regularly picked very good players and was the architect of the best BILLS' defense ever.  He was hamstrung by the team's success as our first pick was normally in the mid-20s.

 

Jeff Burris, Thomas Smith, Sam Cowart, Keith Goganius, Marlon Kerner, Matt Darby, Kurt Schulz, Marlo Perry, Damian Covington (before his career-ending injury), Kenny Irvin, John Holecek, Gabe Northern, Keith Newman, & Peerless Price were all Butler/AJ Smith picks.  Cowart might be the best BILLS' LBer of all time but his body of work is small because that POS TB lineman wrecked his knee.

 

Butler made two huge mistakes in his GM tenure - he traded a first for Rob Johnson (which ended up being Fred Taylor) and his final draft (which I still think he tanked on purpose).

[Nanker]

Watching that film of the Jests, I’d take Shane Conlan and Darryl Talley today over Milano and Edmunds. 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 hour ago, Alaska Darin said:

Cowart might be the best BILLS' LBer of all time but his body of work is small because that POS TB lineman wrecked his knee.

 

 

Still pisses me off.  The series before that injury, he made all the plays to force a three-and-out.  It was Lawrence Taylor-esque.

[Arm of Harm]

5 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

You're revising history quite a bit there.   Butler was an excellent talent evaluator who regularly picked very good players and was the architect of the best BILLS' defense ever.  He was hamstrung by the team's success as our first pick was normally in the mid-20s.

 

Jeff Burris, Thomas Smith, Sam Cowart, Keith Goganius, Marlon Kerner, Matt Darby, Kurt Schulz, Marlo Perry, Damian Covington (before his career-ending injury), Kenny Irvin, John Holecek, Gabe Northern, Keith Newman, & Peerless Price were all Butler/AJ Smith picks.  Cowart might be the best BILLS' LBer of all time but his body of work is small because that POS TB lineman wrecked his knee.

 

Butler made two huge mistakes in his GM tenure - he traded a first for Rob Johnson (which ended up being Fred Taylor) and his final draft (which I still think he tanked on purpose).

 

I was very specific in defining my criteria. A player had to play at a high level, and it had to be over a long period of time. Keith Goganious, for example, had a five year career. Only the first three of those years were spent in Buffalo. Matt Darby had a six year career, and was only a starter for 2.5 out of the six. Sam Cowart was a very good player, but he played in only about six seasons’ worth of games for his career. Marlo Perry’s career lasted six years, and he only spent one of those as a starter. John Holocek was a starter for 4.5 years out of a seven year career. A good player, but it would not be accurate to say he played at a high level for a long period of time. Gabe Northern was a second round pick. His career lasted five years, two of which he was a starter. Keith Newman was a reasonably good player, but has less than five seasons worth of starts. Damien Covington’s career lasted three years, and he has less than one season (16 games) worth of starts. Ken Irvin had a ten year career, but was only a starter for about four of those years. Peerless Price exceeded 600 receiving yards four times in his nine year career. You can’t point to that and say he played at a high level for an extended duration. Marlon Kerner’s career lasted four years, and he had less than half a season’s worth of starts. 
 

Kurt Schulz became a starter in year 4 of his 10 year career. That’s a long enough career to meet my longevity requirement. He wasn’t as good a player as the three guys I’d mentioned, so whether he played at a “high level”depends on where you want to draw the line. Thomas Smith has a nine year career. The first seven of those were spent in Buffalo. He became a starter in his second year. For the Bills to get six years of starter out of him, and for him to leave during Butler’s watch, raises questions about longevity. Six years is strong enough you could make a case for him being on my list, but not so strong that he’s a slam dunk. Jeff Burris had a ten year career. He spent his first four years in Buffalo, including 2.5 years as a starter. He left Buffalo under Butler’s watch. If you’re using a first round pick on a CB, and if in exchange he gives you only 2.5 years worth of starts before leaving in free agency, to me that’s a poor use of a first round pick. 

[Alaska Darin]

[Alaska Darin]

&#%$ you, Ralph and Russ...

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

 

[Alaska Darin]

 

[Alaska Darin]

Here's an obscure one:

 

 

[Alaska Darin]