Expert opinion vs passing the eye test

[GG1]

I've been thinking about framing this topic, especially after hearing McDermott praise Edmunds' play at his season ending press conference.   TOP had a whole bunch of staunch Edmunds defenders who continually claim that Edmunds is extremely valuable to McDermott's defense, and that amateur fans don't understand what they're watching on All-22.

 

As an avowed amateur critic of Edmunds' play, I've yet to be convinced that Edmunds is that valuable to the defense because the amateur eye test says otherwise, supported by his lack of big plays and totally underperforming other MLBs who shined in a McDermott/Johnson defenses.

 

The big question is, does the organization think that the kid will eventually grow into the playmaker that was expected from his draft cost, and the opportunity cost of trying to upgrade the position? 

[Ann]

Was there more to what he said than this?



 

[snafu]

It is almost as though you can see through his helmet and into his head and the gears are turning and steam is billowing out and things are running hot in there. 
 

He plays with his eyes in the backfield through the most part of every play.  When he's done looking into the backfield, the play is already on him or past him.  When he's in coverage, it looks like he's thinking about three things and it seems to slow him down.

 

That's my amateur take.  He's still the QB that hasn't had the game slow down for him yet.  Maybe it never slows down.  Maybe they should give the brains part of his job to someone else and just let him react.

 

[GG1]

21 minutes ago, Ann said:

Was there more to what he said than this?



 

 

That was part of the answer.  McD essentially sidestepped the question of "Where has Edmunds grown and where does he still need to grow?"  McDermott only focused on his growth as a leader and his intensity through the season, especially as he battled the injury early on.

 

I listened to more PCs than I have at any other time, and the Bills press corps do not ask tough questions at all.  The hardest hitting Qs were about Ed Oliver's numbers not meeting expectations, and the decisions to go for FGs.  Nobody broached the ill-fated offensive and defensive game plans.

 

 

[GG1]

3 minutes ago, snafu said:

It is almost as though you can see through his helmet and into his head and the gears are turning and steam is billowing out and things are running hot in there. 
 

He plays with his eyes in the backfield through the most part of every play.  When he's done looking into the backfield, the play is already on him or past him.  When he's in coverage, it looks like he's thinking about three things and it seems to slow him down.

 

That's my amateur take.  He's still the QB that hasn't had the game slow down for him yet.  Maybe it never slows down.  Maybe they should give the brains part of his job to someone else and just let him react.

 

 

All of this is clear on the end zone replays. 

 

Eddie, Eddie, wake up, the ballcarrier is that-a-way!

[Koko]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

It is almost as though you can see through his helmet and into his head and the gears are turning and steam is billowing out and things are running hot in there. 
 

He plays with his eyes in the backfield through the most part of every play.  When he's done looking into the backfield, the play is already on him or past him.  When he's in coverage, it looks like he's thinking about three things and it seems to slow him down.

 

That's my amateur take.  He's still the QB that hasn't had the game slow down for him yet.  Maybe it never slows down.  Maybe they should give the brains part of his job to someone else and just let him react.

 

 

I would agree with this. When he recognizes and commits to a play, he's very effective. The problem is he hesitates, overthinks, and overruns too many plays.

[Nanker]

Let me put it to McDermott like this. Your guy Edmonds in no Dick Butkus. He’s no Mike Singletary.  He’s no Ray Lewis. He’s no Ray Nitchke. He’s not even a Shane Conlan. He’s a Nowhere Man. 
 

Maybe you think he’s a Jar Jar Binks. But looks can fool you. 
 

Gotta get a LOT TOUGHER Buffalo if you’re serious about challenging. “If you come at the King, you best not miss.”

Edited January 27, 2021 by Nanker

[Uncle Joe]

I do the eye test more than the x & o s. Josh Allen and Tre White have the "it" factor.

I have not seen "it" from Tre Edmunds yet.
Seems like tweener right now - not really fast, nor a really big hitter.

[You Dirty Rat]

I always brag about my car right before I sell it

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, snafu said:

It is almost as though you can see through his helmet and into his head and the gears are turning and steam is billowing out and things are running hot in there. 
 

He plays with his eyes in the backfield through the most part of every play.  When he's done looking into the backfield, the play is already on him or past him.  When he's in coverage, it looks like he's thinking about three things and it seems to slow him down.

 

That's my amateur take.  He's still the QB that hasn't had the game slow down for him yet.  Maybe it never slows down.  Maybe they should give the brains part of his job to someone else and just let him react.

 

 

 

This.

[Foxx]

16 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Lack of big plays isn't that big a deal, if you're a solid player that can anchor a defense for other players to play around.  And that's a role middle linebackers often play - it's a position that generates a lot of tackles, but not much in the way of flashy plays.

 

Problem is, with Edmunds, is that he has long stretches of not even doing that much.  He seems to get drawn out of position with alarming frequency, and overrun plays with almost Gabe-Northernish consistency.  He can pursue, and sometimes even tackle...but I don't think it's a coincidence that his best game this season was when he was a spy on Russell Wilson, and explicitly forced to focus on not over-pursuing because of it.

It seems like he is always trying to play in space. Specifically on passing plays. On running plays there have been a number of noticeable times where he just hit the wrong hole or commits to a congested portion of the field where there is no hole or hope of one developing. 

 

I know he was second on the team in tackles behind Poyer and that is a direct result of his position but it just always seemed to this amateur's eyes that he was late to the pile and/or tackling downfield after a gain that should have been stopped much sooner. 

 

I think one of the reasons McD loves him so much is because he is a monster out there. You may not see it from the plays but when they muddle up to get the play call, he just towers over most of the rest of the defensive players. Being tall and having that wingspan is great and all but if you consistently miss plays you probably shouldn't, then what good is it really.

 

 

[GG1]

Is there a Jordan Palmer camp for MLBs?

 

What's Mike Singletary up to in February/March?   Now that Thomas Davis is retired, does Beane make a phone call?

[Alaska Darin]

23 minutes ago, Foxx said:

It seems like he is always trying to play in space. Specifically on passing plays. On running plays there have been a number of noticeable times where he just hit the wrong hole or commits to a congested portion of the field where there is no hole or hope of one developing. 

 

I know he was second on the team in tackles behind Poyer and that is a direct result of his position but it just always seemed to this amateur's eyes that he was late to the pile and/or tackling downfield after a gain that should have been stopped much sooner. 

 

I think one of the reasons McD loves him so much is because he is a monster out there. You may not see it from the plays but when they muddle up to get the play call, he just towers over most of the rest of the defensive players. Being tall and having that wingspan is great and all but if you consistently miss plays you probably shouldn't, then what good is it really.

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.  Every time I look at the guy, I see Brian Urlacher.  Then the play happens and I see Brian Griffen.

[Foxx]

4 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.  Every time I look at the guy, I see Brian Urlacher.  Then the play happens and I see Brian Griffen.

Lol. I had to google Brian Griffin.

 

I could be wrong I guess, but I just don't see where he is an asset out there. But what do I know, he was voted to the Pro Bowl in a year where that selection actually means something.

[Alaska Darin]

59 minutes ago, Foxx said:

Lol. I had to google Brian Griffin.

 

I could be wrong I guess, but I just don't see where he is an asset out there. But what do I know, he was voted to the Pro Bowl in a year where that selection actually means something.

I don't either (almost all of the time).  We've got him on his rookie deal for another year with a club option for year 5.  We'll see if he takes the gigantic leap forward he needs to.

 

I understand that he's young and has limited experience but I prefer my inside linebackers to err on the side of violence. 

[KD in CA]

+1 on the amateur viewpoint that Edmunds does not appear to be special, much less a cornerstone player.

 

So given that combined with FA status of Milano and cheap outs on several others, it begs the question of just how much change they make to the front 7.  Just a tweak or two or blow it up and try to quickly rebuild?  I'm pretty concerned the former won't result in much difference.  Later obviously creates even bigger risks.

 

 

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

+1 on the amateur viewpoint that Edmunds does not appear to be special, much less a cornerstone player.

 

So given that combined with FA status of Milano and cheap outs on several others, it begs the question of just how much change they make to the front 7.  Just a tweak or two or blow it up and try to quickly rebuild?  I'm pretty concerned the former won't result in much difference.  Later obviously creates even bigger risks.

 

 

I'm of the opinion that we need a presence inside to play the 1-tech to free up Oliver. Whether or not Lotulele is the right person for that, I don't know but we need someone who commands that double team on every down. Couple this with a stronger edge rusher opposite Hughes and I think our D-Line would be very disruptive.

 

As the year progressed, we seemed to play 2 LB's more as our base (as I believe most teams did) with a version of the 'monster' DB playing various roles, depending upon the situation (I had hoped Neal was going to fill that role, and I do like him, though obviously not as much as the coaching staff does). I would absolutely love to see Milano as one of those to LB's on most every down. Just not sure Edmunds will ever evolve into a competent player opposite him.

 

Just my armchair take.

[Ninety-4]

6 hours ago, GG1 said:

Is there a Jordan Palmer camp for MLBs?

 

What's Mike Singletary up to in February/March?   Now that Thomas Davis is retired, does Beane make a phone call?

 

I'm surprised Singletary never got a 2nd look as a head coach.  He's a great leader of men IMO.  He'd be terrific mentoring LB's, although he's never seen the world from where Tremaine does.  Damn near a foot shorter. I've been in a room with Singletary.  He's about 5-10. 

[Koko]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

I'm of the opinion that we need a presence inside to play the 1-tech to free up Oliver. Whether or not Lotulele is the right person for that, I don't know but we need someone who commands that double team on every down. Couple this with a stronger edge rusher opposite Hughes and I think our D-Line would be very disruptive.

 

 

Not just this, but you have to start planning for when Hughes decides to hang up the cleats and retire. He's definitely got less NFL years ahead of him than behind him.