USS Sullivans is Sinking!

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Not sure.  But if you check those charts I linked... Project Depth is now 18'.  I swore it was 25' when I was in Survey back in early 1990s.  Here it's 29' on Calumet River.

 

So... I am assuming, project depth through years decreased with the lack of boat traffic @ BFLo Harbor/ River /Ship Canal...

 

And I doubt they were moving the Little Rock or Sullivans to dredge it out, either.

 

Was just reading about the North Carolina - she's bottomed out in the mud, too, about 10 feet deep.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

There's only grass carp in Lake Erie.

 

😉

Yeah...but we can't give you shit about grass carp, now can we?

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

I've been on the Croaker at the Buffalo Naval Park.  Tight fit is an understatement.  At 6'4", I couldn't get through the hatchways without turning backwards - I couldn't simultaneously crouch down, lift my legs high enough, and walk forward.  And Croaker went through a modernization, Silversides didn't.  I can only imagine what that interior was like.

 

My wife knocked herself out on Croaker.  Turned her head in response to a noise, smacked it on the overhead piping.  Ended up spending the night in Gates to make sure she wasn't going to go all Natasha Richardson on us.

Silversides may have been upgraded in 1950s.  On "dry side" of sub... I saw they had the same electrical handles we use at the lock even to this day! 😆 

Edited April 14, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

Yeah...but we can't give you shit about grass carp, now can we?

Actually grass carp is one of the 4 Asian carp.  But they are not worried about them.  After they mature in a few years, they quit filter feeding the top of water column and switch to vegetation. 

 

So you can still give me shit! 😆 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Boy @Ann you hit the jackpot with this thread! Right up our alleys! 😆 

 

😉 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

 

 

More seriously...that's a 20-degree list or greater with the main deck awash, and inboard of the Little Rock, which is stuck in the mud and can't be moved?  I don't know how they're recovering that ship.  

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Silversides may have been upgraded in 1950s.  On "dry side" of sub... I saw they had the same electrical handles we use at the lock even to this day! 😆 

 

Not the full SSK upgrade, though.  She went in to reserve very shortly after the war.

[Ann]

…

 

 

 

[Ann]

Wow

 

 

[Ann]

I read that they are pumping out 13k gallons of water per minute

 

 

 

[Ann]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Boy @Ann you hit the jackpot with this thread! Right up our alleys! 😆 

 

😉

it is sad. I have not gone down to the naval park in years, but have been on numerous times when my son was young.

[ExiledInIllinois]

18 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

And I doubt they were moving the Little Rock or Sullivans to dredge it out, either.

 

Was just reading about the North Carolina - she's bottomed out in the mud, too, about 10 feet deep.

Yup!  Been sitting in mud while mouth of river silting up!  As the economy shrunk in BFLo... No doubt did the project depth with lack of traffic.  I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't dredge it anymore deeper. 18' plenty for the business it does! 

 

They will do the yearly soundings... 

 

Skyway coming down... Nothing big going through there.

 

Figure... That's high hydraulic flow there are mouth of river, Lake Erie/Niagara... 

 

Which leaves me with... If both boats were both stuck in mud on bottom for years..Years... How did they start taking on water?  Lack of funds, maintainers, maintenance?  Volunteers? Bad pumps???

Edited April 14, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

12 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

 

More seriously...that's a 20-degree list or greater with the main deck awash, and inboard of the Little Rock, which is stuck in the mud and can't be moved?  I don't know how they're recovering that ship.  

Wonder if the soft silt on the bottom washed out from under it.  Just sinking right into it! 

 

Pictures are devastating. 

 

Any recent weather events like seiches, etc... Come through area??

Edited April 14, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[Ann]

Crews Work to Save WWII Destroyer Taking on Water in Buffalo

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Not to derail thread... @Crap Throwing Monkey did you see where the Ukes sank the cruiser Moskva?

[RochesterRob]

20 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

 

More seriously...that's a 20-degree list or greater with the main deck awash, and inboard of the Little Rock, which is stuck in the mud and can't be moved?  I don't know how they're recovering that ship.  

  Normally, they would cofferdam Sullivans like they did with the Oklahoma once that was cantilvered to being upright.  Maybe Sullivans could be cantilvered from the lake side.  Far less mass and equipment than Oklahoma.

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Normally, they would cofferdam Sullivans like they did with the Oklahoma once that was cantilvered to being upright.  Maybe Sullivans could be cantilvered from the lake side.  Far less mass and equipment than Oklahoma.

That's the Little Rock on outside (port) of Sullivans and wall, right... I thought Sullivans were behind Little Rock? How did it get between the wall and Little Rock? 

 

Did they slide it up in recent years?

Edited April 14, 2022 by ExiledInIllinois

[RochesterRob]

12 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

That's the Little Rock on outside (port) of Sullivans and wall, right... I thought Sullivans were behind Little Rock? How did it get between the wall and Little Rock? 

 

Did they slide it up in recent years?

  Don't know about that but the way the one news story talked it sounds like counter-flooding is out as a leveling measure.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

32 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Normally, they would cofferdam Sullivans like they did with the Oklahoma once that was cantilvered to being upright.  Maybe Sullivans could be cantilvered from the lake side.  Far less mass and equipment than Oklahoma.

 

Have you seen what they had to do for the Oklahoma, though?  They'd have to tear apart the naval park to set that up, even for something as small as The Sullivans.

 

 

I have other pictures of that equipment, up close.  They were massive.

 

Plus, Oklahoma was outboard, and capsized away from the land.  The Sullivans is actually a different situation.  You'd have to rotate it in the opposite direction of land.  

 

If I had to guess...they're going to have to put floats on the lower side of the ship, and try to winch against the buoyancy of the floats.  If the Little Rock weren't there, it'd be a much easier problem.  But with the Little Rock where it is, I'm not even sure they have enough space to cofferdam and pump out the ship, like they did with California and West Virginia at Pearl Harbor.  

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

50 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Not to derail thread... @Crap Throwing Monkey did you see where the Ukes sank the cruiser Moskva?

 

Yep.  Posted in the Russia thread.

 

With the possible exception of the Belgrano in the Falklands, it's the biggest warship lost in combat since WWII.  (Moskva and Belgrano are just close enough in displacement that it's difficult to say which is larger.)

 

SS Atlantic Conveyer was slightly larger than both...but not a warship, per se.