Buffalo Bills want a new stadium – and for taxpayers to foot the bill

[Ann]

Long thread

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

25 minutes ago, Ann said:

Long thread

 

 

How much community space do the 30,000 residents of the Orchard Park community need?

[Arm of Harm]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:46 AM, Spartacus said:

this may come as a shock

but you can make a lot more money from a factory than a call center employing minimum wage workers

 

in some cases, even enough extra to pay the property taxes

(you need to keep those teacher salaries and pension stocked from prop tax so they can push CRT indoctrination)

 

it's those other taxes, like income tax, imposed at every level that are also a challenge 

 

Building a factory requires a far larger capital outlay than creating a call center. You need to build the factory itself, invest heavily in expensive equipment, etc. There's risk involved with that: for example the risk that someone will invent better equipment than what you'd purchased, thereby making your equipment obsolete. The market could change, someone elsewhere in the world could find a way to make your same product better and cheaper. For all that capital outlay and risk, the factory owner needs a strong rate of return. I think of all the factories in WNY which have closed over the past several decades, without opening new locations elsewhere. That's proof that factory owners face substantial risk.

 

If you're a factory owner and facing risk anyway, why would you want to make that risk worse? High property tax rates increase the risk to business owners. With a tax on corporate profits, you pay that in good years, but not in years when you're in the red. Property tax is not like that: it must be paid in all years, regardless of whether you're in the red. A large fixed expense which doesn't go away in bad years is a very substantial addition of risk.

 

It is not a business owner's responsibility to increase the risk of losing his business, for the purpose of funding misguided or destructive social spending. Business owners generally understand that their responsibility is to protect their own businesses, not to fund spending sprees inspired by public sector unions. If a business has expensive property, plant, and equipment, its CEO is likely to want to put its factories in areas with low property tax. He'd be a fool not to. If you're comparing an area with low property tax to one with predatory property tax rates, the former offers far less risk during bad times, greater rewards when times are good. I believe that high property tax rates are the single biggest obstacle to attracting business, at least for factories, utilities, rail companies, and other businesses with large requirements for physical capital.

 

You are correct to imply that predatory property tax rates are not the only thing that the New York State government, or local governments, have done to extinguish business activity. There is also a regulatory environment which is extremely burdensome for small and medium business. There is unfriendly tort law. Many workers are unionized. There are plenty of taxes beyond just property tax alone. On the plus side from an employer's perspective, workers are reliable and hard working. They're also cheap, at least if you can avoid unions. Unfortunately, workers' willingness to work hard for not much money is not itself sufficient to offset the government's predation, at least not for capital-intensive industries. 

 

[Fansince88]

On 4/25/2022 at 7:58 PM, RochesterRob said:

  And for 250,000 dollars you are in high society there.   There really is excellent value all over WNY especially if you can do home improvement without the aid of a contractor.  

When my 401k is up another 250k Im considering retiring. 500k and I am. 

[Chandemonium]

Anyone else get the new stadium fan survey emailed to them? It was mostly about how interested you would be in tickets at various stadium locations and price points. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Chandemonium

[Beer__League__Hockey]

11 hours ago, Chandemonium said:

Anyone else get the new stadium fan survey emailed to them? It was mostly about how interested you would be in tickets at various stadium locations and price points. 

Got it, it was helpful in planning for the future.  This was the only seating option that was close to what I have today, but it is FAAAAR away from the 40 yard line where I sit:

 

 

[Beer__League__Hockey]

My comments in the survey were along these lines:

 

I have zero interest in the amenities BS - catered events, breweries, and mezzanine are not very important to me.  Roof, good.  Heat, can't afford it.  All inclusive gameday experience, get bent.  I tailgate, walk in, watch the game and pee in a trough a couple of times.  Nothing else is needed.  They talk about making the stadium for the average Bills fan, but then they layer in so much crap that the average Bills fan will be replaced with the corporate douchbags from Toronto.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Beer__League__Hockey

[Spartacus]

32 minutes ago, Beer__League__Hockey said:

My comments in the survey were along these lines:

 

I have zero interest in the amenities BS - catered events, breweries, and mezzanine are not very important to me.  Roof, good.  Heat, can't afford it.  All inclusive gameday experience, get bent.  I tailgate, walk in, watch the game and pee in a trough a couple of times.  Nothing else is needed.  They talk about making the stadium for the average Bills fan, but then they layer in so much crap that the average Bills fan will be replaced with the corporate douchbags from Toronto.

you have broken the code!

the game is just an excuse and venue to sell crap you don't want or need

 

wait till the rest of the hard core fans with 50 year season tix find out their new psoposed seats are outside the stadium

[Chandemonium]

4 hours ago, Beer__League__Hockey said:

Got it, it was helpful in planning for the future.  This was the only seating option that was close to what I have today, but it is FAAAAR away from the 40 yard line where I sit:

 

 

I’m not a current STH and I’m not planning on becoming one any time soon mostly due to living 800 miles from the stadium, but that was the only option I’d realistically be able to afford.

[Ann]

More updates from Hammer... (click the link to see the full photos)

[Ann]

Eyes on the ground update:

[Ann]

Erik Brady: Dome or open-air stadium? The argument that never ends
 

 

[Ann]

More from the ground:
 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 hour ago, Ann said:

More from the ground:
 

 

 

Can't wait to see the result of that.

 

"The site's contaminated with stale Genny Cream Ale."

[Spartacus]

2 hours ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

Can't wait to see the result of that.

 

"The site's contaminated with stale Genny Cream Ale."

Indian burial ground

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

17 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Indian burial ground

 

I don't think the Seneca Nation drank Genny Cream Ale at funerals.

[Alaska Darin]

13 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

I don't think the Seneca Nation drank Genny Cream Ale at funerals.

We no touch "make ass water".

[Fansince88]

3 hours ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

Can't wait to see the result of that.

 

"The site's contaminated with stale Genny Cream Ale."

Haha. Held up for 4 years because the DEC forces them to clean up the poluted dirt. 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

 

Can't wait to see the result of that.

 

"The site's contaminated with stale Genny Cream Ale."

 

That implies there's such thing as "fresh" Genny Cream Ale.

[Ann]

First look: