Russia Russia Russia

[Deranged Rhino]

 

We're doomed.

[Deranged Rhino]

Again, take everything coming out with a grain of salt. Is this true?  

 

 

But if it is, then it sure is a very different picture than what's been painted for us by western media sources. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Talking heads for the past 10 weeks: "All the west wants is peace!" 

 

Reality: 

 

 

Funny how that works.

[Deranged Rhino]

Remember, no one in leadership in the west benefits from war... 

 

 

It's not like they try to use it as an excuse for everything...

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Again, take everything coming out with a grain of salt. Is this true?  

 

 

But if it is, then it sure is a very different picture than what's been painted for us by western media sources. 

 

Ukraine is winning because that should have been accomplished a couple of months ago.  

 

Admittedly, a weak definition of "winning," but three months for Russia to take Mauripol is...not good for Russia.

[Koko]

24 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Again, take everything coming out with a grain of salt. Is this true?  

 

 

But if it is, then it sure is a very different picture than what's been painted for us by western media sources. 

 

Not really a surprise. The siege of Mariupol has been a foregone conclusion for quite some time, and Russia has actually had the land corridor for weeks. I doubt that the troops trapped for the past month+ in the steelworks were ever really a serious threat to that Crimea corridor.

 

As Tom said, the 'win' here for Ukraine is that it took Russia this long to finally take the entire city/steelworks.

[Deranged Rhino]

Remember, we all have to suffer here at home so that together we can CRUSH the Russian economy... wait a second

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

If you're against sinking America to help prop up a failed puppet state - then you're for Putin or something.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Deranged Rhino

[Deranged Rhino]

 

So, when will the next traunch be? 10 days or less is my bet.

[IDBillzFan]

3 hours ago, Koko said:

As Tom said, the 'win' here for Ukraine is that it took Russia this long to finally take the entire city/steelworks.

 

That sounds a lot like saying "The win for the Bills is that they didn't lose to the Patriots* by more than two scores."

 

If it's a foregone conclusion that Russia is going to win this thing anyway, why are we throwing another $40B into it? Feels like throwing good money after bad. We should be putting that money to something more important.

 

Like the FDA so they can ramp up baby formula production. 

 

 

[Ann]

4 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Remember, no one in leadership in the west benefits from war... 

 

 

It's not like they try to use it as an excuse for everything...

It is not this administration’s policies causing the rise in gas prices!?!? How could she say that with a straight face? I liked Hawley immediately listing all the things the Biden administration did to jack up fuel prices, putting emphasis on the first week Biden was installed.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

11 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

That sounds a lot like saying "The win for the Bills is that they didn't lose to the Patriots* by more than two scores."

 

If it's a foregone conclusion that Russia is going to win this thing anyway, why are we throwing another $40B into it? Feels like throwing good money after bad. We should be putting that money to something more important.

 

Like the FDA so they can ramp up baby formula production. 

 

 

Its not a foregone conclusion. 

[Ann]

14 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

 

If it's a foregone conclusion that Russia is going to win this thing anyway, why are we throwing another $40B into it? Feels like throwing good money after bad. 

 

 

Grift

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

37 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Its not a foregone conclusion. 

 

Particularly if we keep pumping aid in to Ukraine.

 

If Ukraine were on its own...Russia'd be a pretty sure bet Russia would win an attritive campaign, it's just a question of how long it would take.  Since they have economic support, it throws all the calculations out of sync.

[Koko]

1 hour ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

That sounds a lot like saying "The win for the Bills is that they didn't lose to the Patriots* by more than two scores."

 

If it's a foregone conclusion that Russia is going to win this thing anyway, why are we throwing another $40B into it? Feels like throwing good money after bad. We should be putting that money to something more important.

 

Like the FDA so they can ramp up baby formula production. 

 

 

 

That's not even close to what I was saying. Don't conflate one battle - where the Ukrainians were cut off from reinforcements/resupply, surrounded, and being pounded daily by artillery - with the entire war.

 

'Win' is also a fluid concept. I'd wager heavily that Russia's goal to 'win' the war was initially to take Kiev, eliminate the government, and turn Ukraine into a satellite. Now their goal to 'win' seems to take the Donbas region, secure their land bridge, and declare victory.

 

A 'win' for Ukraine is simply to not lose the Donbas region and let Russia's military embarrass itself. They don't need to be rolling Ukrainian tanks down Red Square to defeat Russia and 'win' the war.

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, Koko said:

 

That's not even close to what I was saying. Don't conflate one battle - where the Ukrainians were cut off from reinforcements/resupply, surrounded, and being pounded daily by artillery - with the entire war.

 

I was mostly busting balls about the whole thing more than anything. And here's why.

 

Russia invaded shortly before one of our industry conferences here in the states, and they always bring in someone to give a global look at the world, and I can still see the slide saying the war against Ukraine would be over in less than 3 weeks, so don't worry about it affecting things too much.

 

Three months and $100B later, I'm watching everyone in DC blame the war for our problems while lining their pockets under the guise of 'helping Ukraine' while McConnell and Pelosi stroll down the streets with full camera crews, and to be honest, it's all bullshit theater to me.

 

If you want me to have a better understanding, do something no one else in public office has bothered to tell me: what does the end of this war REALISTICALLY look like, how much more is it going to cost me and how soon will it be over.

 

Since every phucking misery in this country -- from gas prices to the supply chain -- is Putin's fault, let's get this phucking thing over with so we can get prices down and get product moving so my company doesn't die trying to program products that can't get delivered.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by IDBillzFan

[Koko]

3 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

If you want me to have a better understanding, do something no one else in public office has bothered to tell me: what does the end of this war REALISTICALLY look like, how much more is it going to cost me and how soon will it be over.

 

When the big guy gets his 10%, a lot, and no time soon.

[Deranged Rhino]

13 hours ago, Koko said:

 

When the big guy gets his 10%, a lot, and no time soon.

That’s the real answer to the NYT’s question today...

 

 

 

But if you say it out loud, you’re supporting Putin somehow or something. 
 

Neocon/Neolibetalism- the most dangerous and deadly ideology not named communism or nazism. That people still line up beside them and call them the “good guys” with all we have learned about their leadership, goals, and track record, shows you how powerful media conditioning is on the weak minded. 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

That’s the real answer to the NYT’s question today...

 

 

 

But if you say it out loud, you’re supporting Putin somehow or something. 
 

Neocon/Neolibetalism- the most dangerous and deadly ideology not named communism or nazism. That people still line up beside them and call them the “good guys” with all we have learned about their leadership, goals, and track record, shows you how powerful media conditioning is on the weak minded. 

 

Not perfect alignment.  The Bush administration actually put some effort into thinking about and implementing some boundaries on the surveillance and security state apparatus, and was more careful about words and context.

 

Progressives want to use it completely unfettered against anyone they consider an enemy and label a "terrorist," including racists, bigots, and other "stochastic terrorists."  Note how they contextualize the Ukraine war in those same terms: terrorism (Russian, in this case) against an oppressed minority group.

[Deranged Rhino]

Remember, the saga of 2016 is unrelated to this situation. And any attempt to link them makes you a traitor (or something). 

 

 

But facts are undeniable. 2016-2017 the same people behind that scandal burned down every bridge to Moscow, making future statesmanship and conflict resolution near impossible. 

 

... Almost like there has been a plan to launch a regime change war in Moscow for years and years.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Deranged Rhino