BILLS' History

[Uncle Joe]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

But the Greatest Game Ever Played had Christiansen (sp?) and Charlie Jones.

This guy from Eugene?

(RIP}

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Christensen

Edited October 1, 2023 by Uncle Joe

[Ann]

Crazy

 

 

 

[Nanker]

44 minutes ago, Ann said:

Crazy

 

 

 

Yeah, sure. But can you think how many we would have had if only they picked the right Josh? It boggles the mind! ATOPDRAFTGURUS

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

36 minutes ago, Nanker said:

Yeah, sure. But can you think how many we would have had if only they picked the right Josh? It boggles the mind! ATOPDRAFTGURUS

 

If I was the franchise, I'd be firmly in the camp of doing everything to rehabilitate Josh - highlight his strengths (running the ball, throwing deeper routes, etc).  Once this is accomplished, trade him.

 

 

[Nanker]

47 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

If I was the franchise, I'd be firmly in the camp of doing everything to rehabilitate Josh - highlight his strengths (running the ball, throwing deeper routes, etc).  Once this is accomplished, trade him.

 

 

Oh yes! And this also:

 

As structured, this franchise will never win with a guy like Josh.  This is mostly because the coach/GM will never change, so he is the only thing of relative worth to flip.  I say this because the thought of firing McDermott and finding a solid offensive minded coach that would change Josh Allen's style in year 7, 8 or 9 (if his health lasts that long) seems virtually impossible.

 

Guess we’re all just Billsfanone. 

[Ann]

W.O.W.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Ann said:

W.O.W.

 

Yeah, but did they ever put a 70 burger up against an opponent that had quit?  

 

Didn't think so.  

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

3 hours ago, Ann said:

W.O.W.

 

"Bills can't win close games!"

 

Because they don't have to.

[Alaska Darin]

3 hours ago, Ann said:

W.O.W.

tHe BillS cAn'T wIn ClOsE gAmEs!

[Foxx]

September 30, 1962

 

ABC's open and footage from the oldest regular season AFL broadcast that I'm aware of in existence

 

Buffalo #Bills at #Dallas Texans, from the Cotton Bowl

 

ABC Sports' play-by-play announcer Jack Buck and color analyst George Ratterman welcome us in at the top on a warm, breezy Sunday afternoon in Dallas.

 

However, we quickly see how primitive broadcasts — particularly AFL broadcasts — are in 1962.

 

The network is forced to abort the pre-kickoff Mercury car advertisement because the officials jump the gun and start the game too quickly — the opening kickoff is missed. It clearly catches Jack Buck by surprise.

 

Buffalo goes three-and-out and punts. On Dallas's first play from scrimmage, stud halfback Abner Haynes rips off a beautiful 71-yard run for a quick 7-0 lead.

 

As stated, it's a partial broadcast, but this is all of the footage that I have of the contest.

 

The Dallas Texans — who the following year would move to Kansas City to become the #Chiefs — defeat the Bills in this one, 41-21. Abner Haynes rushes for a career-high 164 yards and scores twice.

 

An intriguing look at how professional football was played — and broadcast — 61 years ago today.

 

 

[Ann]

I did not know Terrence McGee held this record for the Bills!
 

 

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 10/10/2023 at 2:30 PM, Foxx said:

September 30, 1962

 

ABC's open and footage from the oldest regular season AFL broadcast that I'm aware of in existence

 

Buffalo #Bills at #Dallas Texans, from the Cotton Bowl

 

ABC Sports' play-by-play announcer Jack Buck and color analyst George Ratterman welcome us in at the top on a warm, breezy Sunday afternoon in Dallas.

 

However, we quickly see how primitive broadcasts — particularly AFL broadcasts — are in 1962.

 

The network is forced to abort the pre-kickoff Mercury car advertisement because the officials jump the gun and start the game too quickly — the opening kickoff is missed. It clearly catches Jack Buck by surprise.

 

Buffalo goes three-and-out and punts. On Dallas's first play from scrimmage, stud halfback Abner Haynes rips off a beautiful 71-yard run for a quick 7-0 lead.

 

As stated, it's a partial broadcast, but this is all of the footage that I have of the contest.

 

The Dallas Texans — who the following year would move to Kansas City to become the #Chiefs — defeat the Bills in this one, 41-21. Abner Haynes rushes for a career-high 164 yards and scores twice.

 

An intriguing look at how professional football was played — and broadcast — 61 years ago today.

 

 

 

“…from the oldest regular season AFL broadcast that I’m aware of in existence…”

 

I’m guessing that the ABC network has all the broadcasted AFL games from 1960-1964 stored in their archives. Likewise, the NBC network probably has all the broadcasted AFL games from 1965-1969 stored in theirs.

 

As for the complete game films that the AFL teams individually recorded for their own study during their seasons, I’m guessing that each AFL team maintains them somewhere in their respective facilities. If not, then most likely NFL Films (whose archives are located in Mount Laurel, NJ) collected them immediately following the merger.

 

I might e-mail Ken Crippen and Jeffrey Miller from PFRA (Professional Football Research Association) and ask for the full whereabouts of our franchise’s AFL game films. Both are major Bills fans and are the perfect types of people who would know about such things. It would be a major tragedy if any of this footage was lost forever!

 

By the way, the color analyst (George Ratterman) in this footage was the star QB of the 1947-1949 Buffalo Bills of the AAFC (All-America Football Conference). It was the surprisingly strong fan support for this somewhat mediocre AAFC franchise that convinced Ralph Wilson to begin his AFL franchise in Buffalo (after the city of Miami rejected him).

[Foxx]

8 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

“…from the oldest regular season AFL broadcast that I’m aware of in existence…”

 

I’m guessing that the ABC network has all the broadcasted AFL games from 1960-1964 stored in their archives. Likewise, the NBC network probably has all the broadcasted AFL games from 1965-1969 stored in theirs.

 

As for the complete game films that the AFL teams individually recorded for their own study during their seasons, I’m guessing that each AFL team maintains them somewhere in their respective facilities. If not, then most likely NFL Films (whose archives are located in Mount Laurel, NJ) collected them immediately following the merger.

 

I might e-mail Ken Crippen and Jeffrey Miller from PFRA (Professional Football Research Association) and ask for the full whereabouts of our franchise’s AFL game films. Both are major Bills fans and are the perfect types of people who would know about such things. It would be a major tragedy if any of this footage was lost forever!

 

By the way, the color analyst (George Ratterman) in this footage was the star QB of the 1947-1949 Buffalo Bills of the AAFC (All-America Football Conference). It was the surprisingly strong fan support for this somewhat mediocre AAFC franchise that convinced Ralph Wilson to begin his AFL franchise in Buffalo (after the city of Miami rejected him).

If you do decide to email Ken Crippen and/or Jeffrey Miller, I'd be curious to know their response.

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 10/17/2023 at 6:47 AM, Foxx said:

If you do decide to email Ken Crippen and/or Jeffrey Miller, I'd be curious to know their response.

 

Yes, I can relay their responses to you! I was already planning to contact Mr. Crippen and Mr. Miller at some point, anyway, over the holiday season regarding a couple Bills history project ideas.

 

My growing fear is that the film records for Buffalo’s 144 total AFL games are permanently incomplete. I say that because I now distinctly remember reading about Pro Football Reference’s attempts to record all QB sack statistics prior to 1982. A handful of historians were laboriously studying game logs, score sheets, and what they described as “limited” film footage. Sack totals from the early post-merger era had been fully counted, but the historians reported increasing difficulties the further back in time that they delved into the 1960’s records. Why, exactly, was the film footage “limited” for these historians?? Was it simply an issue of restricted access? Or was the combined compulsion for hoarding and love for pro football history apparently not as strong in some people years ago as it is in others now (such as in yours truly)??

 

In case you were wondering, these are the Bills history project ideas that I would like to discuss with Mr. Crippen and Mr. Miller:

 

1. Formal cases presented to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Committee for multiple forgotten AFL Bills players. I’m very happy to hear that Art Powell was recently nominated as a senior finalist for the Class of 2024, but I can count five others (Cookie Gilchrist, Tom Sestak, Mike Stratton, Butch Byrd, and George Saimes) who also deserve serious consideration for Canton’s hallowed hall. These formal cases would need to be presented to Vic Carucci (of the Buffalo News), James Lofton, and Bill Polian because all three currently sit on the HOF Committee. I’m just a random ditzy amateur internet historian, however…Ken Crippen and Jeffrey Miller are preeminent pro football historians with sufficient cachet to persuade HOF Committee members. Mr. Crippen is the leading expert on Buffalo’s 1946-1949 AAFC franchise, while Mr. Miller is the leading expert on Buffalo’s 1920’s NFL franchise.

 

Oh and by the way, this is yet another reason why recovering AFL film footage is so important!! Statistics and news clippings can never tell the complete story of a football player’s impact. It’s one thing, for example, to say that Cookie ran for 10 yards; it’s quite another to witness how he thoroughly demolished his competitors en route to those 10 yards. One also needs to examine film footage carefully to see exactly how Sestak, Stratton, Byrd, and Saimes fulfilled their unique roles in Joe Collier’s creative defenses. Saimes, in particular, has to be one of the biggest all-time victims of statistics biases! He didn’t amass flashy interception numbers like KC’s Johnny Robinson did in part because the two played dissimilar safety roles.

 

2. A complete catalogue of the teams that participated in the NYPFL (New York Pro Football League). The NYPFL, as you may recall, was one of the antecedent leagues to the NFL that played a key role in the NFL’s formation. There would be a fair amount of tedium involved in such a project because it would require combing through several decades (1890-1919) of miscellaneous WNY/CNY newspaper records. The payoff, I hope, would be a more complete historical understanding of why and how this particular region of the country became so unusually passionate about professional football…a cultural “origin story,” if you will, of Bills Mafia! I suspect a lot has to do with the blue-collar roots of Buffalo and of the greater upstate NY region.

[Foxx]

11 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

Yes, I can relay their responses to you! I was already planning to contact Mr. Crippen and Mr. Miller at some point, anyway, over the holiday season regarding a couple Bills history project ideas.

 

My growing fear is that the film records for Buffalo’s 144 total AFL games are permanently incomplete. I say that because I now distinctly remember reading about Pro Football Reference’s attempts to record all QB sack statistics prior to 1982. A handful of historians were laboriously studying game logs, score sheets, and what they described as “limited” film footage. Sack totals from the early post-merger era had been fully counted, but the historians reported increasing difficulties the further back in time that they delved into the 1960’s records. Why, exactly, was the film footage “limited” for these historians?? Was it simply an issue of restricted access? Or was the combined compulsion for hoarding and love for pro football history apparently not as strong in some people years ago as it is in others now (such as in yours truly)??

 

In case you were wondering, these are the Bills history project ideas that I would like to discuss with Mr. Crippen and Mr. Miller:

 

1. Formal cases presented to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Committee for multiple forgotten AFL Bills players. I’m very happy to hear that Art Powell was recently nominated as a senior finalist for the Class of 2024, but I can count five others (Cookie Gilchrist, Tom Sestak, Mike Stratton, Butch Byrd, and George Saimes) who also deserve serious consideration for Canton’s hallowed hall. These formal cases would need to be presented to Vic Carucci (of the Buffalo News), James Lofton, and Bill Polian because all three currently sit on the HOF Committee. I’m just a random ditzy amateur internet historian, however…Ken Crippen and Jeffrey Miller are preeminent pro football historians with sufficient cachet to persuade HOF Committee members. Mr. Crippen is the leading expert on Buffalo’s 1946-1949 AAFC franchise, while Mr. Miller is the leading expert on Buffalo’s 1920’s NFL franchise.

 

Oh and by the way, this is yet another reason why recovering AFL film footage is so important!! Statistics and news clippings can never tell the complete story of a football player’s impact. It’s one thing, for example, to say that Cookie ran for 10 yards; it’s quite another to witness how he thoroughly demolished his competitors en route to those 10 yards. One also needs to examine film footage carefully to see exactly how Sestak, Stratton, Byrd, and Saimes fulfilled their unique roles in Joe Collier’s creative defenses. Saimes, in particular, has to be one of the biggest all-time victims of statistics biases! He didn’t amass flashy interception numbers like KC’s Johnny Robinson did in part because the two played dissimilar safety roles.

 

2. A complete catalogue of the teams that participated in the NYPFL (New York Pro Football League). The NYPFL, as you may recall, was one of the antecedent leagues to the NFL that played a key role in the NFL’s formation. There would be a fair amount of tedium involved in such a project because it would require combing through several decades (1890-1919) of miscellaneous WNY/CNY newspaper records. The payoff, I hope, would be a more complete historical understanding of why and how this particular region of the country became so unusually passionate about professional football…a cultural “origin story,” if you will, of Bills Mafia! I suspect a lot has to do with the blue-collar roots of Buffalo and of the greater upstate NY region.

I really wish you would reconsider publishing your historical works. I don't know that I know of anyone who has a zeal for the topic quite like you do. That, and I have read your previous works and know how good they are!

[Ann]

The Fitz cut-ins
 

 

[Foxx]

Who's next?

 

[Foxx]

@ComradeKayAdams I don't know if you have seen this.

 

[Ann]

The Jamie Mueller spike in the end zone
 

 

[Foxx]

Big Mad 🤬