Russia Russia Russia

[Deranged Rhino]

Remember - there aren't long term geopolitical plans put into place by those who wish us ill. That's just nonsense. And on an unrelated note, here's a clip from 1997

 

 

Sooner or later people have to understand how much of our reality is manipulated by those who are not on the side of humanity, for reasons that stretch beyond incompetence or even basic greed. We've seen more than enough evidence of this in just the past 6 years, let alone the past 22. 

[Deranged Rhino]

They'll get what they want eventually... 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Deranged Rhino

[Deranged Rhino]

 

"BUT IF WE DON'T KILL OURSELVES, PUTIN WILL TAKE OVER ALL OF EUROPE!"

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

They'll get what they want eventually... 

 

 

That's so vague and nondescript as to be virtually meaningless.  What's a "release"?  Was it dropped or launched?  Was it guided?  What sort of missile?  Was it "near," or "beyond visual range," or was it a BVR missile released near the plane?  

 

The statement tells you practically nothing of any substance.

[Deranged Rhino]

2 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

That's so vague and nondescript as to be virtually meaningless.  What's a "release"?  Was it dropped or launched?  Was it guided?  What sort of missile?  Was it "near," or "beyond visual range," or was it a BVR missile released near the plane?  

 

The statement tells you practically nothing of any substance.

 

Which is why the timing is so interesting and clearly politicized. 

 

The claim is it was a malfunction on the Russian's part. I have no way to know, of course, but that's doubtful. 

[Deranged Rhino]

This would push us well past the $250b in cash and materials in under 10 months.

 

They keep playing make-believe with the numbers, hoping no one keeps track. Because after awhile, no one does. Which is always the goal.

 

Of course this endless money pit  is speeding up the economic collapse at home and abroad, making us as individual Americans and as a nation weaker, poorer, and more dependent on the State to keep us afloat. And all of this is being done just to prop up a corrupt cesspool of a nation that has no strategic, tactical, or historical value to the US or the "West". It's being done because the establishment politicians on both sides of the aisle have used that country as a piggy bank for decades at the expense of the very same people they claim to care so much about today. 

 

This is a fact, not conspiracy. Backed by innumerable examples and yet some people still think it's a worthwhile endeavor and we're not being had. This after the receipts have come home from Iraq 2, Libya, Syria... and on and on. 

 

Is it a mere coincidence that this whole thing kicked off within months of the Pro-Regime-Change neocon establishment retaking the wheel of power in the west? Of course not. But if you say the truth in times like these, you're not only considered a firebrand but a dangerous misinformation peddler.  

 

Ask yourself: Is Ukraine worth your financial future? What do you gain from depleting our energy reserves, and our pocketbooks - while increasing the likelihood of a nuclear exchange? 

 

Is our nation's security improved by weakening our economic might, depleting our own defense capabilities and munitions? Or are you still buying the outdated and provenly false rhetoric that "if we don't stop Putin in the Ukraine, we'll have to stop him here" which the Neocon sect rolled out to greenlight Iraq 2? This after the domino theory was proven to be a canard after decades of Cold War struggles? 

 

Is it really worth the risk of a nuclear exchange to wage a proxy war designed not to free Ukraine but remove leadership in Moscow? 

 

Or maybe, just maybe, we're better off staying out of ancient blood feuds. If there's one thing that's been proven after 60+ years of western adventuring and regime building policy, the blowback is ALWAYS worse than they say.

 

 

 

 

We have a group in power who is applying outdated 20th century geopolitical analysis to a 21st century crisis - and said crisis is being run by a provenly corrupt and inept administration with a financial and political stake in the outcome.

 

But saying this would be a disaster for all these reasons and more makes one a "Putin Apologist". 

 

There's stupid. Then there's neocon stupid.  

[Nouseforaname]

Guess he never heard of Holodomor.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

15 minutes ago, Nouseforaname said:

Guess he never heard of Holodomor.

 

You know, the Nazis, when they invaded the Soviet Union, had a plan to confiscate all the food supplies for import into the greater Reich, at the expense of the urban centers of the Soviet Union.

 

German estimates of the number of Russians who would stave to death started at 30 million, and ranged as high as 60 million.  The Nazi Minister of Food and Agriculture, Herbert Backe, and the OKW economics department explicitly and publicly named it "The Hunger Plan."  

 

I'm not willing to credit that horrific plan to modern Germans...but I also have to admit, Medvedev isn't without a point either.

[Nouseforaname]

10 hours ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

You know, the Nazis, when they invaded the Soviet Union, had a plan to confiscate all the food supplies for import into the greater Reich, at the expense of the urban centers of the Soviet Union.

 

German estimates of the number of Russians who would stave to death started at 30 million, and ranged as high as 60 million.  The Nazi Minister of Food and Agriculture, Herbert Backe, and the OKW economics department explicitly and publicly named it "The Hunger Plan."  

 

I'm not willing to credit that horrific plan to modern Germans...but I also have to admit, Medvedev isn't without a point either.

I learned something new today.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 minute ago, Nouseforaname said:

I learned something new today.

 

It's somewhat surprising that The Hunger Plan isn't better known.  The Holocaust was executed under a veil of secrecy and inference ("the final solution to the Jewish question," "resettlement," etc.)  

 

The Hunger Plan was never secret, and never obfuscated.  It was an explicit public plan.  

[Koko]

41 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

It's somewhat surprising that The Hunger Plan isn't better known.  The Holocaust was executed under a veil of secrecy and inference ("the final solution to the Jewish question," "resettlement," etc.)  

 

The Hunger Plan was never secret, and never obfuscated.  It was an explicit public plan.  

 

Yeah, but no one back then (or probably now) really cared about starving communists.

[Joe Miner]

1 minute ago, Koko said:

 

Yeah, but no one back then (or probably now) really cared about starving communists.

 

Communism was taking them there anyway. Germany was just speeding up the process.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

39 minutes ago, Koko said:

 

Yeah, but no one back then (or probably now) really cared about starving communists.

 

Not entirely true.  The US, through Lend Lease, provided the Soviet Union an average of 2000 calories of food per day per Russian soldier (an average of about 12 million) from 1942-1945.  And that in a food situation where factory workers in heavy industry were getting 1750 calories/day, and farmers 1500 (which is barely enough to keep from starving to death for heavy laborers).  

 

Lend-Lease food was the margin between survival and mass starvation in Russia in WW2.  Lend-Lease was a pretty remarkable program.  

[Koko]

48 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

Not entirely true.  The US, through Lend Lease, provided the Soviet Union an average of 2000 calories of food per day per Russian soldier (an average of about 12 million) from 1942-1945.  And that in a food situation where factory workers in heavy industry were getting 1750 calories/day, and farmers 1500 (which is barely enough to keep from starving to death for heavy laborers).  

 

Lend-Lease food was the margin between survival and mass starvation in Russia in WW2.  Lend-Lease was a pretty remarkable program.  

 

Feeding Soviet workers/soldiers was practical; we needed them to put pressure on the Eastern Front. After the war was over, can you really say that the west cared enough about the Soviets to go out of the way to make a historical highlight the Nazi plan?

Edited October 21, 2022 by Koko

[Cinga]

I'm seeing an awful lot of chatter like this so putting this here for now

 

[Nouseforaname]

9 minutes ago, Cinga said:

I'm seeing an awful lot of chatter like this so putting this here for now

 

I think it’s Kanye .

[Robs House]

https://www.revolver.news/2022/10/american-world-war-ii-nostalgia-risks-blowing-up-the-world/

 

"Americans in general like to be fighting against Hitler. So before the Russian invasion even began, Sen. Lindsey Graham described Putin’s pre-war behavior as “exactly what Hitler did.” “Is Putin the New Hitler?” asked U.S. government-backed VOA News in March. Former Russian ambassador Michael McFaul had to awkwardly walk back suggesting that Putin was actually worse than Hitler, but the fact he suggested it at all shows the thrust of his mind.

This has important ramifications for foreign policy, and it’s not just because Hitler was evil. Crucially, Hitler was also a madman (at least in the popular imagination), so even if one could negotiate with him, one shouldn’t. A madman can only be destroyed or rendered harmless. So when one’s only frame of reference of “bad enemy leader man” is Hitler, it’s a perspective that pushes the nation towards larger and more all-consuming conflicts. In Ukraine, this means the war cannot end with some mundane settlement. Instead, it must end with Putin out of power, or else the Hitler-esque madman will simply come back to invade more countries right away."

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 hour ago, Robs House said:

https://www.revolver.news/2022/10/american-world-war-ii-nostalgia-risks-blowing-up-the-world/

 

"Americans in general like to be fighting against Hitler. So before the Russian invasion even began, Sen. Lindsey Graham described Putin’s pre-war behavior as “exactly what Hitler did.” “Is Putin the New Hitler?” asked U.S. government-backed VOA News in March. Former Russian ambassador Michael McFaul had to awkwardly walk back suggesting that Putin was actually worse than Hitler, but the fact he suggested it at all shows the thrust of his mind.

This has important ramifications for foreign policy, and it’s not just because Hitler was evil. Crucially, Hitler was also a madman (at least in the popular imagination), so even if one could negotiate with him, one shouldn’t. A madman can only be destroyed or rendered harmless. So when one’s only frame of reference of “bad enemy leader man” is Hitler, it’s a perspective that pushes the nation towards larger and more all-consuming conflicts. In Ukraine, this means the war cannot end with some mundane settlement. Instead, it must end with Putin out of power, or else the Hitler-esque madman will simply come back to invade more countries right away."

 

I'd point out too, quite simply, that America's record with negotiated ends to wars is pretty poor.  Almost all of our successful wars, with a few exceptions (1812, Spanish-American War) we've fought to a military conclusion, not a negotiated political conclusion.

 

So it's not just that we've cast the Russo-Ukraine war in absolute Manichean terms...but also, if we negotiated an end, we'd probably just &#%$ it up anyway.  Doubly so with the current administration doing the negotiating.

[Foxx]

Ever changing borders

 

[devnull]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

Ever changing borders

 

 

Makes me wanna play some Crusader Kings III