afc east Dolphins Chat

[Alaska Darin]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

I’ve always been a homer, to me that goes hand in hand with being a fan. The drought years were not kind to optimists like myself, especially when it came to evaluating Bills’ QBs. 
 

I gave EJ every benefit of the doubt, talked myself into thinking maybe he can be the guy (never that he WAS the guy - key difference). I wanted him to be, because if he was the guy then the drought would end. 
 

Thankfully 17 made that outlook pay off🥳

I knew it was going to be bad...thankfully it was really only one season of EJ bad.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Alaska Darin said:

He would have had to be in the top 1% of prospects to even stand a chance to overcome the situation(s).  It's the nature of the beast in the NFL - very few guys overcome serious early career trauma on the way to measurable success.  Off the top of my head...Bradshaw, Steve Young, Jim Plunkett, Phil Simms (arguably), & Aikman. 

 

Edwards shared the QB room with only Losman his first two seasons and had 2 different OCs (imagine the 2 of them trying to figure out situational football and film breakdown under Fairchild, then Shoenert, and finally AVP - none of whom had ever been an NFL OC before).  His third year they brought in Fitz and Brian Brohm, making Fitz the most accomplished NFL QB he was ever in a position room with.

 

Whatever limited chance he had coming into the league was completely destroyed by organizational ineptitude.  It's easy to just blame the player but it's also pretty lazy. 

I’m not going to try to make the case that he was surrounded with good teams but he also never showed a blessed thing.  He was passed over by every team in the league twice during the draft and played like one might expect a third rounder to play.  That is, never showing a clear ability to be a viable NFL starter.  It’s not as if he was some highly touted prospect who got beat around and fell apart.  He came into the league and left the league as a Glove Wearing Mary.

[Alaska Darin]

15 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I’m not going to try to make the case that he was surrounded with good teams but he also never showed a blessed thing.  He was passed over by every team in the league twice during the draft and played like one might expect a third rounder to play.  That is, never showing a clear ability to be a viable NFL starter.  It’s not as if he was some highly touted prospect who got beat around and fell apart.  He came into the league and left the league as a Glove Wearing Mary.

1.  I hate the revisionist history aspect because Edwards had a couple of very good games (one example was a game in KC where he threw for nearly 300 yards, had 2 passing and 2 rushing TDs).  His second season stats are comparable to Big Ben's...but the Steelers were a better balanced team/well run organization and won the Super Bowl, while the Bills went 7-9.

2.  The draft status thing is an equally ridiculous take given 2 of the very best QBs of this era are Brady (6th rounder) and Russell Wilson (3rd).

 

The reality is pretty much EVERY QB that comes out of college needs to a lot of development.  John Elway was so bad as a rookie that he got benched for Steve DeBerg.  Tampa Bay couldn't figure out how to use Steve Young, who went 3-16 in Florida and then 91-33 when he got to a team with good players and coaches.

 

I am not saying Edwards was ever going to be anything but his failure was pretty much guaranteed by the dysfunction of the organization and football operation. 

[4merper4mer]

11 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

1.  I hate the revisionist history aspect because Edwards had a couple of very good games (one example was a game in KC where he threw for nearly 300 yards, had 2 passing and 2 rushing TDs).  His second season stats are comparable to Big Ben's...but the Steelers were a better balanced team/well run organization and won the Super Bowl, while the Bills went 7-9.

2.  The draft status thing is an equally ridiculous take given 2 of the very best QBs of this era are Brady (6th rounder) and Russell Wilson (3rd).

 

The reality is pretty much EVERY QB that comes out of college needs to a lot of development.  John Elway was so bad as a rookie that he got benched for Steve DeBerg.  Tampa Bay couldn't figure out how to use Steve Young, who went 3-16 in Florida and then 91-33 when he got to a team with good players and coaches.

 

I am not saying Edwards was ever going to be anything but his failure was pretty much guaranteed by the dysfunction of the organization and football operation. 

Revisionist history?  He had a couple ok games in his CAREER.  Most of his wins were outstanding defensive efforts or against bad teams.  Dallas kept giving away that MNF game and Edwards kept giving it back.  He wasn’t the only culprit but all he had to do a couple of times was not turn it over, but he did.  Can’t it be that both the Bills organization and Edwards were hopelessly bad?  Because they were.

 

The revisionist history, which you haven’t used but is constantly spewed, was that the concussion did him in.  Yet his best game was after the concussion.

[Core Four]

39 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

The revisionist history, which you haven’t used but is constantly spewed, was that the concussion did him in.  Yet his best game was after the concussion.

 

I don't recall Edwards being the same after the concussion, where he became Trentative.  He was decent prior to that Arizona game, not great, but showed some promise.

[4merper4mer]

11 minutes ago, Core Four said:

 

I don't recall Edwards being the same after the concussion, where he became Trentative.  He was decent prior to that Arizona game, not great, but showed some promise.

His best game statistically and otherwise was against the Chargers and took place after the Arizona game.  

[Fansince88]

Rumors all over FB saying Brady going to Fins. False?

[TakeYouToTasker 2.0]

5 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

Rumors all over FB saying Brady going to Fins. False?

False.

 

He may surface there next year, but not this season.

 

He flew to England to attend a Manchester United game, and immediately afterwards made his “I’m coming back” announcement.

 

The sports media romanticized it, and said that Brady was inspired by watching an aging Ronaldo, a GOAT in his own right, scored a hat trick to lead United to victory.

 

The reality is that Brady met with the Glazers, who own both United and Tampa Bay, and gained assurances from them that they backed him in the Arians power struggle, and that he and Leftwich would run the offense without interference from Arians.

 

He’s since been recruiting players to Tampa.

 

He’s not going anywhere.

[Fansince88]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker 2.0 said:

False.

 

He may surface there next year, but not this season.

 

He flew to England to attend a Manchester United game, and immediately afterwards made his “I’m coming back” announcement.

 

The sports media romanticized it, and said that Brady was inspired by watching an aging Ronaldo, a GOAT in his own right, scored a hat trick to lead United to victory.

 

The reality is that Brady met with the Glazers, who own both United and Tampa Bay, and gained assurances from them that they backed him in the Arians power struggle, and that he and Leftwich would run the offense without interference from Arians.

 

He’s since been recruiting players to Tampa.

 

He’s not going anywhere.

So still an attention whore.

[Foxx]

10 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker 2.0 said:

False.

 

He may surface there next year, but not this season.

 

He flew to England to attend a Manchester United game, and immediately afterwards made his “I’m coming back” announcement.

 

The sports media romanticized it, and said that Brady was inspired by watching an aging Ronaldo, a GOAT in his own right, scored a hat trick to lead United to victory.

 

The reality is that Brady met with the Glazers, who own both United and Tampa Bay, and gained assurances from them that they backed him in the Arians power struggle, and that he and Leftwich would run the offense without interference from Arians.

 

He’s since been recruiting players to Tampa.

 

He’s not going anywhere.

Really? The ownership has effectively neutered Arians? It will be interesting to see if Bruce sticks around. Didn't he leave Pittsburgh in a dispute? Does this whole Brady - Arians thing revert back to the A. Brown situation throughout Antonio's entire time there? I don't think Arians ever wanted Brown but had to put up with him because of ToMmY tERrIfiC.

[TakeYouToTasker 2.0]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

Really? The ownership has effectively neutered Arians? It will be interesting to see if Bruce sticks around. Didn't he leave Pittsburgh in a dispute? Does this whole Brady - Arians thing revert back to the A. Brown situation throughout Antonio's entire time there? I don't think Arians ever wanted Brown but had to put up with him because of ToMmY tERrIfiC.

It has far more to do with the offensive concepts.

 

When Tom first arrived they were running Arians’ offense, which was very downfield heavy.

 

He and Brady fought about it a lot while they were losing. Brady and Leftwich then staged a mutiny, and started running a more New England offense.

 

The rift has been there ever since.

[IDBillzFan]

19 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

I’ve always been a homer, to me that goes hand in hand with being a fan. The drought years were not kind to optimists like myself, especially when it came to evaluating Bills’ QBs. 
 

I gave EJ every benefit of the doubt, talked myself into thinking maybe he can be the guy (never that he WAS the guy - key difference). I wanted him to be, because if he was the guy then the drought would end. 
 

Thankfully 17 made that outlook pay off🥳

 

Same here. I've always held onto hope with each Bills quarterback because, honestly, where is the upside to spending an entire football season spouting off to everyone who would listen that (fill in the blank) Bills quarterback sucks ass and will never be good and we should blow the whole team up again.

 

I'll never understand sports fans who go through seasons like that. Why not just stop watching if it makes you so freaking miserable?

 

Check that. I do not why fans do it. Because it brings easy and lazy together like chocolate and peanut butter: the easiest thing to do is to predict failure in the NFL, and the laziest thing to do is predict failure so you can stand around saying the four laziest words to ever form a sentence: I told you so.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by IDBillzFan

[Ann]

A Dolphins Fan Reaction to the 2021-2022 NFL Season
 

 

[Core Four]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

Really? The ownership has effectively neutered Arians? It will be interesting to see if Bruce sticks around. Didn't he leave Pittsburgh in a dispute? Does this whole Brady - Arians thing revert back to the A. Brown situation throughout Antonio's entire time there? I don't think Arians ever wanted Brown but had to put up with him because of ToMmY tERrIfiC.

 

Brady is both harder to replace and more valuable than Arians is.  If I am reading into @TakeYouToTasker 2.0 post above correctly, the Glazers may be thinking the same.  From what I can tell, Arians is a hard-headed "my way or the highway" old school coach whose run as an NFL HC (and possibly OC) is coming to an end.

[Arm of Harm]

20 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

Edwards had every card in the deck stacked against him:

1.  Jauron

2. Schoenert

3. REALLY, REALLY bad OLine play (think Dockery/Langston Walker days with Duke friggin' Preston at center)

4.  Bad Tight Ends (Robert Royal was the best of what might have been the worst collection in team history).

5.  Lee Evans was the only real receiving threat.

 

Most QBs are ruined by bad organizations.  We are VERY lucky that JA had the background/upbringing he did because that first season woulda broke a lot of guys.

Very solid post. The only thing I remember different was at center. Marv had signed Melvin Fowler to be the center. Fowler had been a backup for the Vikings but on the Bills was considered good enough to be the starter. The former center, Tre Teague, departed and Fowler took his place. Fowler was not a starting quality football player. 

[Arm of Harm]

27 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Same here. I've always held onto hope with each Bills quarterback because, honestly, where is the upside to spending an entire football season spouting off to everyone who would listen that (fill in the blank) Bills quarterback sucks ass and will never be good and we should blow the whole team up again.

 

I'll never understand sports fans who go through seasons like that. Why not just stop watching if it makes you so freaking miserable?

 

Check that. I do not why fans do it. Because it brings easy and lazy together like chocolate and peanut butter: the easiest thing to do is to predict failure in the NFL, and the laziest thing to do is predict failure so you can stand around saying the four laziest words to ever form a sentence: I told you so.

 

 

The two most important things I look for in a QB prospect are accuracy and information processing. EJ Manuel had done nothing to distinguish himself in either category at the college level. When the Manuel pick was announced, I felt exactly as I did for the Music City Miracle. A wave of realization swept over me, and I knew that the Bills would not win the Super Bowl until Manuel and the front office which drafted Manuel had been replaced. I saw the next several years of my Bills fanhood go down the drain in an instant. It was like watching an uninsured house burn down. 
 

Never once did I allow myself any kind of false hope with Manuel. It is not my responsibility to delude myself into believing falsehoods. Because I rejected the false notion that Manuel had any kind of “potential” beyond his physical gifts, I got the pain of the Manuel pick over with rather quickly, starting the moment the pick was announced. I didn’t use false hope as an excuse to needlessly spread the Manuel pain out over several years. 

[IDBillzFan]

3 hours ago, Arm of Harm said:

The two most important things I look for in a QB prospect are accuracy and information processing. EJ Manuel had done nothing to distinguish himself in either category at the college level. When the Manuel pick was announced, I felt exactly as I did for the Music City Miracle. A wave of realization swept over me, and I knew that the Bills would not win the Super Bowl until Manuel and the front office which drafted Manuel had been replaced. I saw the next several years of my Bills fanhood go down the drain in an instant. It was like watching an uninsured house burn down. 
 

Never once did I allow myself any kind of false hope with Manuel. It is not my responsibility to delude myself into believing falsehoods. Because I rejected the false notion that Manuel had any kind of “potential” beyond his physical gifts, I got the pain of the Manuel pick over with rather quickly, starting the moment the pick was announced. I didn’t use false hope as an excuse to needlessly spread the Manuel pain out over several years. 

 

That's fantastic. I don't follow college football so all I knew about Manuel was what I read. And just like every other quarterback coming out of college, some people loved him and some people hated him. 

 

I can't imagine skipping a few football seasons simply because I know disaster when I see it, so good for you for sparing yourself wasting all that time waiting for Whaley to get tossed.

 

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

2 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

That's fantastic. I don't follow college football so all I knew about Manuel was what I read. And just like every other quarterback coming out of college, some people loved him and some people hated him. 

 

I can't imagine skipping a few football seasons simply because I know disaster when I see it, so good for you for sparing yourself wasting all that time waiting for Whaley to get tossed.

I don't remember anyone "loving" EJ.  He had at best 6th/7th/UDFA film coming out of college.  He was a product of playing with some decent talent surrounding him and FSU preying on some pretty weak opponents during his career.  He woulda been a reach in the 3rd round.

 

I will grant that was a very low quality draft from top to bottom.  The best players from the class is probably DeAndre Hopkins (27th overall) followed by David Bakhtiari (who went in the 4th).  The BILLS actually did pretty well all things considered, with Robert Woods, Goodwin, Kiko Alonso, Duke Williams, and Dustin Hopkins all dressing for at least 58 games.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

43 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

I don't remember anyone "loving" EJ.  He had at best 6th/7th/UDFA film coming out of college.  He was a product of playing with some decent talent surrounding him and FSU preying on some pretty weak opponents during his career.  He woulda been a reach in the 3rd round.

 

I will grant that was a very low quality draft from top to bottom.  The best players from the class is probably DeAndre Hopkins (27th overall) followed by David Bakhtiari (who went in the 4th).  

 

And Kelce.  Probably the only notable names in that draft.

 

As a QB draft, it was stunningly bad.  Manuel is still the third-best QB of that draft, behind Geno Smith and Mike Glennon.  Then only QB from that draft currently on a roster is Matt Barkley.  Great QB draft. 

[devnull]

17 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Monkey said:

As a QB draft, it was stunningly bad.  Manuel is still the third-best QB of that draft, behind Geno Smith and Mike Glennon.  Then only QB from that draft currently on a roster is Matt Barkley.  Great QB draft. 

 

At the time he was the #1 rated QB in that draft.  Given the extra weight given to the QB position, that explains how a 3rd or 4th round prospect like EJ Manual went in the mid 1st.