Russia Russia Russia

[Cinga]

They claim this is  Russian propaganda but I'm not so sure....

 

 

 

[Nouseforaname]

2 hours ago, Cinga said:

They claim this is  Russian propaganda but I'm not so sure....

 

 

 

One thing is for sure, the meat he was eating captured the essence of airplane food.

 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

Was reading last night about Sergei Karaganov.  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/sergey-karaganov-the-man-behind-putins-pugnacity/article17734125/

 

He's basically the architect of Putin's foreign policy, going all the way back to the mid-90s.  Putin's following his roadmap almost precisely.  

 

His other writings are at: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/sergey-karaganov-the-man-behind-putins-pugnacity/article17734125/

[Nouseforaname]

On 10/9/2022 at 10:00 AM, Robs House said:

Disturbing video below.

 

 It's hard to know who to believe, especially since I don't speak the language, but it appears that those dumping bodies in a mass grave are the people we're supporting.

 

 

 

 

[Nouseforaname]

 

[Nouseforaname]

 

No one should trust Bremmer? Why, because he lied or because he didn’t keep a secret ?

[4merper4mer]

12 minutes ago, Nouseforaname said:

 

No one should trust Bremmer? Why, because he lied or because he didn’t keep a secret ?

25 years in the swamp?

[Nouseforaname]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

25 years in the swamp?

Did you enjoy Elon’s solution for Taiwan? What’s next giving the river to the sea to the Palestinians ?

[4merper4mer]

Just now, Nouseforaname said:

Did you enjoy Elon’s solution for Taiwan? What’s next giving the river to the sea to the Palestinians ?

Huh?  Where did I say anything about Musk’s solution to anything?

 

I was just pointing out that there are a lot more reasons one might distrust Bremmer than the false choice you created, thinking it was clever.

[Nouseforaname]

8 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Huh?  Where did I say anything about Musk’s solution to anything?

 

I was just pointing out that there are a lot more reasons one might distrust Bremmer than the false choice you created, thinking it was clever.

Enlighten me. 

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, Nouseforaname said:

Enlighten me. 

I already did but clearly you missed it.  I’d try another way but that would be Calvin copyright infringement.

[Nouseforaname]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I already did but clearly you missed it.  I’d try another way but that would be Calvin copyright infringement.

Yes, the swamp. Shuts down every argument.  Good night hampster.

[Robs House]

On 10/10/2022 at 5:31 PM, Nouseforaname said:

 

 

 

I don't find Kasparov terribly persuasive. I will give him credit for arguing his position though, which has been a rarity among the Ukraine hawks.

 

When this whole thing started I intentionally stayed away from it because I knew the reporting would be unreliable and that I'd lack the knowledge to form an objective opinion. Now that things are escalating I'm trying to learn more about it & I'm finding my initial inclination was right.

 

The problem is I don't think anyone in the West understands what's going on, and of those reporting from the east it's hard to know who to trust.

 

I know better than to trust the Ukrainian sock puppets because they offer nothing of substance to support their positions, almost exclusively resorting to cheap COVID style tactics  of categorical condemnation of anyone who has the audacity to question their narrative -  This is not the behavior of people who have truth on their side.

 

At the same time, I don't want to fall into the logical fallacy of assuming because the Ukrainian puppets are full of shit that the Russian puppets are telling the truth.  After the Russian collusion hoax it only makes sense to question the left's demonization of Russia/Putin, but just because the worst people in the world agree that someone sucks  doesn't necessarily make them wrong (see George W Bush).

 

I will say, from what little I can find, those reporting from a more neutral or Russian perspective at least seem to argue their points, which I find more persuasive than being called a Putin lover, fascist, or boot licker.

 

We're painted a picture of Ukraine as this united people just trying to live their lives when genocidel madman Putin,motivated by conquest, marches in for no other reason and takes power. But there are others saying that the people in that region are not ethnically and culturally connected to Ukraine and most of them identify as Russian. 

 

According to one source Ukraine was dropping bombs on civilians in the Donbas just a few years back because the rebels in that area didn't want to join the US backed Ukrainian government. Is this true? I don't know. But the pro Ukrainian side has given me less than no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

It would suit me just fine if we butted out and let them work it out amongst themselves.

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Robs House

[Nouseforaname]

25 minutes ago, Robs House said:

 

I don't find Kasparov terribly persuasive. I will give him credit for arguing his position though, which has been a rarity among the Ukraine hawks.

 

When this whole thing started I intentionally stayed away from it because I knew the reporting would be unreliable and that I'd lack the knowledge to form an objective opinion. Now that things are escalating I'm trying to learn more about it & I'm finding my initial inclination was right.

 

The problem is I don't think anyone in the West understands what's going on, and of those reporting from the east it's hard to know who to trust.

 

I know better than to trust the Ukrainian sock puppets because they offer nothing of substance to support their positions, almost exclusively resorting to cheap COVID style tactics  of categorically condemnation of anyone who has the audacity to question their narrative -  This is not the behavior of people who have truth on their side.

 

At the same time, I don't want to fall into the logical fallacy of assuming because the Ukrainian puppets are full of shit that the Russian puppets are telling the truth.  After the Russian collision hoax it only makes sense to question the left's demonization of Russia/Putin, but just because the worst people in the world agree that someone sucks  doesn't necessarily make them wrong (see George W Bush).

 

I will say, from what little I can find those reporting from a more neutral or Russian perspective at least seem to argue their points, which I find more persuasive than being called a Putin lover, fascist, or boot licker.

 

We're painted a picture of Ukraine as this united people just trying to live their lives when genocidel madman Putin,motivated by conquest, marches in for no other reason and takes power. But there are others saying that the people in that region are not ethnically and culturally connected to Ukraine and most of them identify as Russian. 

 

According to one source Ukraine was dropping bombs on civilians in the Donbas just a few years back because the rebels in that area didn't want to join the US backed Ukrainian government. Is this true? I don't know. But the pro Ukrainian side has given me less than no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

It would suit me just fine if we butted out and let them work it out amongst themselves.

 

I don’t like the sock puppets either.  Putting a Ukraine flag on your twitter account and turning on anyone isn’t the way to go but there are also plenty of Russian sock puppets on twitter.  There are also josh Allen & Patrick mahomes sock puppets if you get my drift.

 

I have probably said it enough times in this thread but Ukraine is the line in the sand.  It capitulates, he will not stop there.  You simply have to go back to what he has been saying for decades.

Edit: and it will also send a message to dictators that they can do what they want.

 

Dictators are clear about their intentions.  Iran says death to Israel because they want to nuke Israel. There’s no both sides.  That doesn’t mean israel is perfect but it’s the lesser of two evils.  Same shit with China and their intentions.

 

That has always been my take.  There might be a few shitty Ukrainians but they didn’t invade anyone and voted to leave the Soviet Union in the 90’s. Letting them get overrun is, in my opinion, a grave error.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Nouseforaname

[Robs House]

2 minutes ago, Nouseforaname said:

I don’t like the sock puppets either.  Putting a Ukraine flag on your twitter account and turning on anyone isn’t the way to go but there are also plenty of Russian sock puppets on twitter.  There are also josh Allen & Patrick mahomes sock puppets if you get my drift.

 

I have probably said it enough times in this thread but Ukraine is the line in the sand.  It capitulates, he will not stop there.  You simply have to go back to what he has been saying for decades.

 

Dictators are clear about their intentions.  Iran says death to Israel because they want to nuke Israel. There’s no both sides.  That doesn’t mean israel is perfect but it’s the lesser of two evils.  Same shit with China and their intentions.

 

That has always been my take.  There might be a few shitty Ukrainians but they didn’t invade anyone and voted to leave the Soviet Union in the 90’s. Letting them get overrun is, in my opinion, a grave error.

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't see much reason to believe  Russia poses an imminent threat to Europe.

 

The idea that we must contain him lest he continue his conquest of the world is the same line of thinking that led to World War II.  People still cherry pick a few statements Hitler made over the years to suggest that world conquest was his goal, but the facts don't really bear it out.  It's possible, but it's also entirely likely that Germany's real goal was to reclaim its prior territories. We'll never know what would have happened had it been handled differently, but we do know the decisions that were made led to the deadliest conflict in human history. It might not be the best blueprint to follow.

 

That said, I'm not saying you may not be right, I just don't see much evidence for it.

[Nouseforaname]

11 minutes ago, Robs House said:

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't see much reason to believe  Russia poses an imminent threat to Europe.

 

The idea that we must contain him lest he continue his conquest of the world is the same line of thinking that led to World War II.  People still cherry pick a few statements Hitler made over the years to suggest that world conquest was his goal, but the facts don't really bear it out.  It's possible, but it's also entirely likely that Germany's real goal was to reclaim its prior territories. We'll never know what would have happened had it been handled differently, but we do know the decisions that were made led to the deadliest conflict in human history. It might not be the best blueprint to follow.

 

That said, I'm not saying you may not be right, I just don't see much evidence for it.

And the final solution ?

[Robs House]

19 minutes ago, Nouseforaname said:

And the final solution ?

 

No reason to think it ever goes there.

[4merper4mer]

9 hours ago, Nouseforaname said:

Yes, the swamp. Shuts down every argument.  Good night hampster.

Shirley you couldn’t possibly need it spelled out in an even more first grade level could you?

 

1.  You presented a false choice presenting only two potential reasons Musk could call Bremmer unworthy of trust.

 

2.  I gave another potential reason which was not a member of your two option set.  Perhaps had I listed five, you would have understood and maybe you did anyway because…..

 

3. You shifted the argument to irrelevant criticism of Musk’s “policies”

 

4. I not so subtly pointed out that you weren’t being so bright

 

5. Like the Martian did with science….you strawmanned the @#&* out of it

 

Here’s hoping the step by step explanation above is simple enough.

[Deranged Rhino]

But remember - this has nothing to do with the current crisis. And questioning the motives of Biden and the establishment isn't prudent, but only proves you're an agent of Putin. 

 

 

The reality is this has been a goal of the western establishment for going on over a decade now. They've engineered a crisis, created a boogeyman, and eliminated all off ramps - and have done so knowingly and eagerly. 

 

And they did it not to save Ukraine, or its people, or to protect Europe or "Democracy". 

 

They did it to enrich themselves at our expense. To cement their seats of power, to tap the western economy for all its worth before the implosion - no matter how many dead Ukrainians or nuclear winters might be caused as a result. 

 

... And some still think the western establishment are the good guys - when all evidence shows that there might not be any good guys to be found in this entire scenario. 

 

But let's keep making WW2 comparisons to show how smart and NOT conditioned we've become. 

[Deranged Rhino]